Date: Monday, 13 February 1989 06:02-MST From: Wm E. Davidsen To: 386users at TWG.COM Re: 80386 mailing list, vol 4 #7 80386 User's mailing list vol 4 #7 Feb 13, 1989 In this issue: Re: 386 motherboards Advice on 386 systems needed Desqview screen blanking AST Rampage 286 board in Zenith 386 286->386SX ENIX(UNIX) and DOS [ 2 msgs ] Compaq 386/16 [ 2 msgs ] Re: 386/SX Chip [ 7 msgs ] The addresses for the list are now: 386users@TWG.COM - for contributions to the list or ...!uunet!TWG.COM!386users 386users-request@TWG.COM - for administrivia or ...!uunet!TWG.COM!386users-request P L E A S E N O T E If you want to get on or off the list, or change your address, please mail to the 386users-request address, or the message will be delayed by having to hand forward it (for your convenience, not mine). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bcw@rti.UUCP (Bruce Wright) Subject: Re: 386 motherboards Date: 10 Jan 89 03:59:20 GMT In article <5815@gssc.UUCP>, bradd@gssc.UUCP (Brad Davis) writes: > > Does anyone out there have experience with any of those AT-compatible > 386 motherboards? Especially regarding AMI, Micronics and Haupagge brands > as these appear to be the most popular/reputable. In particular, have > you had any buss or bios compatibility problems? How does it get along > with Windows 386? OS/2? Unix/Xenix? DesqView? Would you do it again? > > The situation is that I don't really have the budget for a whole new box, > and a brain transplant seems like a much better solution than an InBoard. > I would agree that for most applications a new motherboard is better than an accelerator product. Nowadays, the only really good reason to go with an accelerator rather than a motherboard is because you have some hardware which is dependent on the old board (say, because the bus speed is not compatible with the motherboard) that you can't get rid of. I am not however convinced that replacing a 286 or 8088 motherboard with a 386 motherboard is cost-effective. The cost of 386 motherboards is so high compared to the cost of a complete 386 machine that it actually becomes attractive to sell the 286 or 8086 machine and buy a complete new 386 machine. The differential becomes even greater if you have a significant amount of memory on the 286 (you may not want to use 286 memory boards on a 386, so that means getting the 386 memory board which often takes incompatible memory chips -- so you can't even cannibalize the 286 memory boards!). Likewise if you want to upgrade the disk drives - if you just upgrade, you wind up with a bunch of parts rather than a whole machine; usually you can sell a complete machine for more than a handfull of miscellaneous parts. Obviously every case is going to have unique considerations - depending on the hardware you already have (and may need to discard/sell/replace/keep) and what you want to replace or augment it with. Bruce C. Wright ------------------------------ From: dbright@eta.unix.ETA.COM (David A. Bright) Subject: Advice on 386 systems needed Date: 7 Jan 89 17:54:09 GMT I am considering the purchase of a 386 machine to replace my current 286 machine. I would like to solicit all opinions on what machines people might recommend or condemn. My objective is to get a machine that will run a 386 version of Unix (Microport, Interactive, Everex Enix, etc.) and to get one at the least possible initial outlay of money. I can cannibalize my 286 for video (Hercules) and some memory, if need be. Specific things I need to know about: What motherboards are better than others? What BIOS is better than others? What vendors are better than others? Secondly, I need the following in the Unix version I buy: Tape drivers (I already have a Sysgen 4540 controller (QIC-36) and Wangtek tape drive, but can't get it to work with Microport System V/AT 2.4, I suspect that it is because the controller appears not to be interrupt-driven), X-windows (maybe even with a Hercules driver?), and ability to support RLL, SCSI, and/or ESDI disk drives. I will also be glad to receive comments about the various versions of Unix (I've heard of Enix, but not been able to locate a vendor; any pointers?). Thanks in advance to all those who will respond. Please reply directly to me, as I know this has been discussed before on the net and doesn't need to be rehashed. -- David A. Bright 910 W. Burke Avenue dab@Bright.MN.ORG (Home) Roseville, MN 55113 dbright@unix.ETA.COM (Work) 612 487-2407 (Voice) 612 487-2416 (Data) ------------------------------ From: harris@ecsvax.uncecs.edu (Mark Harris) Subject: Desqview screen blanking Date: 11 Jan 89 15:35:12 GMT I am using Desqview 2.2 on a 386 machine (with the QEMM driver). One attractive (claimed) feature of the software is its screen blanking, which should work in any video mode of my VGA system. When I first installed Desqview screen blanking worked sometimes but not always. I have made various changes and now blanking never works. I can't isolate the factor that suppresses blanking. Any suggestions? By the way, trying to get technical support from Quarterdeck is murder. Last time I spent 40 long distance minutes waiting in their queue. I'm reluctant to go through that again. -- Mark Harris mail:harris@ecsvax(UUCP/BITNET) Department of Mathematical Sciences Appalachian State University Boone, NC 28608 (704) 262-3050 office, 264-6906 home ------------------------------ Subject: AST Rampage 286 board in Zenith 386 Date: Wed, 18 Jan 89 11:15:56 CST From: "Randy C. Orrison" I have been loaned a Rampage 286 board with .5Meg of RAM, and would like to be able to use it in my Zenith 386. Do any of you know if this will work, and whether the EMS driver that I have will work with it? (I have the Zenith beta driver to use the top 128k of the 1Meg that came with it as EMS). Thanks for any info you have! -randy (Please mail replies to randy%garnet.uucp@shamash.cdc.com, or any address below, rather than to the mailing list, since I'm not on the mailing list. Thanks again) -- Randy Orrison - Chemical Computer Thinking Battery - randy@cctb.mn.org (aka randy@{umn-cs.uucp, ux.acss.umn.edu, umnacvx.bitnet, garnet.uucp}) "Blow a lawyer to pieces / It's the obvious way Don't wait for a thesis / Do it today" - Al Stewart ------------------------------ From: palowoda@megatest.UUCP (Bob Palowoda) Subject: 286->386SX ENIX(UNIX) and DOS Date: 16 Jan 89 09:03:39 GMT Ok, It seems I got alot of mail on Enix (Everex UNIX) so I will sum up what happened in the Jan PC-UNIX Sig meeting. The company Everex Inc, located in Fremont, Ca. now sells 'ENIX Ver5.3' which is the licensed 3.2 version of ATT UNIX3.2. Everex just wanted to name it ENIX to identify with them. First the good news. The two user package only cost $299.00. That means you can have one console login and two other serial port login's I guess. So how do they get away with it so cheap. They don't include the manuals. The do include the manuals on the installation of coarse. This is how they claim to market it so cheap. If your a developer I guess you would by the ATT's version with complete manuals than ENIX for the customers. Or you can hit the local book store. Here's what they said was in the package: The operating system. The text processing package. X-windows V11.2 The C-compilier. They offer free support, they claim to have 30 to 40 employee's in the department. What kind of machine's will it run on. 386 clones and the ATT 6336 (I think). For that fact ATT's 3.2 runs on a 386 Clone. I haven't run the package myself but the first person that dos I hope they write about who wrote the "window manager" for the X-windows. What types of drivers they supply. The other prices: 499.00 ---- Unlimited user version includes everything above only you can have unlimited users logged in. 699.00 ---- OS and Text Processing Manuals included. Now for the bad news: They don't have a Simul-Task yet, but they did indicate that the hooks are in the kernal for this. TCP/IP was not included in the package but they did say they where working on it. ------------------------------------------------------------ Opinion This is what I would like to see. An 386SX adptor board that could plug into my AT that has cache, that will run this version of Unix. Or any other. Everex claimed that it ran on there AT1800 series AT that has one of these adaptor boards in it. Of coarse it dosn't have cache. I thought I read somewhere that the company "G2" is makeing a 386SX chip set with cache. If someone comes out with such a board for about 500 and the unix software cost about 500 it's time for me to upgrade. I would like to hear from anyone how has experience upgradeing there exsisting 286 motherboard in this way. I don't have the number off hand for Everex, it's at home. I will post it on my bbs in the bulletin section. The bbs number is 415-796-3686. ------------------------------------------------------------- ---Bob -- Bob Palowoda Work: {sun,decwrl,pyramid}!megatest!palowoda Home: {sun,pryamid}aeras!grinch!legends!fiver!palowoda BBS: (415)796-3686 2400/1200 Voice:(415)745-7749 ------------------------------ From: leech@zeta.cs.unc.edu (Jonathan Leech) Subject: Re: 286->386SX ENIX(UNIX) and DOS Date: 16 Jan 89 20:36:34 GMT In article <1203@megatest.UUCP> palowoda@megatest.UUCP (Bob Palowoda) writes: > I don't have the number off hand for Everex, it's at home. Brian Brinkerhaus 415-683-ENIX Everex Sales 800-821-0806 Brinkerhaus is sales manager (or similar position) for ENIX. He seems to know what he is talking about. Followups to comp.unix.microport only (seems most appropriate). -- Jon Leech (leech@cs.unc.edu) __@/ ``You looked so innocent and vulnerable, I wanted to use everything I knew about radar astronomy to protect you.'' - Dr. Steve Mills in _My Stepmother is an Alien_ ------------------------------ From: asplund@nunki.usc.edu (Daryl Asplund) Subject: Compaq 386/16 Date: 17 Jan 89 05:30:20 GMT Recently I purchased a Compaq Deskpro '386 / 16 and have have a question for anyone who may be familiar with how the memory works. My problem arises when I try to use the expanded memory (I have 1024K on the supplied Compaq memory board). When I attempt to address it (with CEMM, VDISK, etc.) I always get an error telling me that I only have 640K. I have tried to use the Compaq install program, as well as Norton Utilities Advanced, and Mace Utilities, and all tell me that I only have 640K! I know this is not true since I have removed the cover and physically seen all four banks of memory filled. I have also run the Compaq Advanced Diagnostics (version 6.02 Revision R (the newest)) and it (aside from at boot up) is the only utility that will recognize it. When I run the memory tests all comes out just fine! I have placed numerous calls to both my dealer and Compaq with absolutely no results! Both keep telling me that something must be conflicting with the memory addressing, but aside from my Compaq VGA board and the Compaq drive controller (both of which test out fine with the advanced diagnostics) the memory is the only other board! Also, I realize that 128K of the 384K (1024K - 640K) is reserved for special Compaq services so I only have 256K left, but I cannot even access this 1K of it (let alone 256K)! Any help will be greatly appreciated! Please send all responses to me directly: asplund@castor.usc.edu Thank you in advance for your help, Daryl ------------------------------ From: thaler@speedy.cs.wisc.edu (Maurice Thaler) Subject: Re: Compaq 386/16 Date: 17 Jan 89 15:42:13 GMT I would suppose that your Compaq is set up the way my Dell 310 is set up. With 2Meg of memory, it only appears to have 1 Meg free after boot up. This is because they use the 384K for shaddow memory. Cache control, bios etc are controlled in this area and the memory can NOT be accessed any way at all. Just byte the bullet as it were and spring for another 3 Meg of memory. Maurice Thaler SYSOP Audio Projects BBS (608) 836-9473 SYSOP Power Board BBS (608) 222-8842 ------------------------------ From: pjh@mccc.UUCP (Pete Holsberg) Subject: Re: 386/SX Chip Date: 11 Jan 89 14:18:59 GMT In article <3114@ihuxv.ATT.COM> bareta@ihuxv.ATT.COM (Benyukhis) writes: = =Can anyone on the net describe what kind of an animal the 386/SX =chip is, as well as its price and availability if possible. = The 386sx is essentially a 386 with an external 16-bit data bus. Very much like the 8088/8086 relationship. -- Pete Holsberg UUCP: {...!rutgers!}princeton!mccc!pjh Mercer College CompuServe: 70240,334 1200 Old Trenton Road GEnie: PJHOLSBERG Trenton, NJ 08690 Voice: 1-609-586-4800 ------------------------------ From: smith@iwblsys.UUCP (Mickey Smith) Subject: Re: 386/SX Chip Date: 11 Jan 89 15:11:26 GMT In article <3114@ihuxv.ATT.COM>, bareta@ihuxv.ATT.COM (Benyukhis) writes: > > Can anyone on the net describe what kind of an animal the 386/SX > chip is, as well as its price and availability if possible. > The 386SX is a full implementation of the 386DX part and supports all 386DX software. Its is not an upgrade to a 80286. The 386SX runs at 16 MHz and has a bus bandwidth of 16 Megabytes/Sec. The external bus is a non multiplexed 16 bit data bus and 24 bit address bus. The part is supportted with a 80387SX for Numerics. The part is available now and pricing is available through an Intel Field Sales Office. -- Mickey Smith, Regional Software Specialist | Opinions are my own and not Intel Corporation | that of my employer. 7071 Orchard Lake Road | W. Bloomfield, MI 48332 (313) 851-8096 | So there!! ------------------------------ From: aris@altger.UUCP (aris) Subject: Re: 386/SX Chip Date: 12 Jan 89 13:43:09 GMT In article <569@mccc.UUCP> pjh@mccc.UUCP (Pete Holsberg) writes: >The 386sx is essentially a 386 with an external 16-bit data bus. Very >much like the 8088/8086 relationship. Will the 386SX run 386 software such as SCO xenix 2.3.1 (And VPIX under that..)? Or will there be a new version of SCO Xenix that will support the 386SX chip? Thanks in advance, Aris Stathakis ..!uunet!mcvax!olnl1!olgb1!olsa99!aris and/or ..!uunet!mcvax!unido!altger!aris ------------------------------ From: john@data.UUCP (John Mantey) Subject: Re: 386/SX Chip Date: 13 Jan 89 16:44:34 GMT The 386SX is basically a subset of the 386 processor. The SX does not have as large an address space as the 386 (ie 24 bit address bus instead of a 32 bit address bus). This gives the 386sx an address capability of 16M of physical ram as opposed to the 4G of the 386. The SX only has a 16 bit data bus, similar to the 286, instead of a 32 bit address bus. This just means it takes 2 data cycles to get data that a 386 would be able to get in one. Other than that the two processors are the same. Software written for the sx will run unmodified on the 386, and software for the 386 that never tries to access physical memory above 16M will work on the SX. As to availability and cost, don't ask me, cause I don't know. johnm ------------------------------ From: sjb@dalek.UUCP (Seth J. Bradley) Subject: Re: 386/SX Chip Date: 14 Jan 89 05:21:59 GMT In article <1304@altger.UUCP> aris@altger.UUCP (aris) writes: > Will the 386SX run 386 software such as SCO xenix 2.3.1 (And > VPIX under that..)? Or will there be a new version of SCO Xenix > that will support the 386SX chip? The 386SX has been fully certified under UNIX. There should be no need for a special version. -- Seth J. Bradley UUCP: uunet!{lll-winken|ubvax}!dalek!sjb Internet: lll-winken.llnl.gov!dalek!sjb ------------------------------ From: akm@uoregon.uoregon.edu (Anant Kartik Mithal) Subject: Re: 386/SX Chip Date: 14 Jan 89 08:14:01 GMT I recently had the opportunity of using a NEC powermate with a 386SX, 16 MHz and 2 MB of memory. On running Norton's SI (ver 3.00) on it (the only software I could get: the machine uses 3.5" drives, and my software is all 5.25") produced some strange results. Approximately half the time it gave speeds of 15.7 +/- .1 and the (approximately) other half it gave speeds of 18.3 +/- .1 Can anyone explain this? I also felt (gut feeling, coloured by the speed of the hard disk in the machine, and I have no idea how fast that was) that the machine was not particularly faster than my 12 MHz, 0 Wait State 286. ------------------------------ From: mslater@cup.portal.com (Michael Z Slater) Subject: Re: 386/SX Chip Date: 16 Jan 89 23:25:57 GMT > 386SX Pricing for the 386SX at the time of its introduction last June was $219 in 100s and $165 in 1000s. Note that these are "book" prices, and negotiated contract prices will vary considerably. For comparison, here are some other 100-piece prices: Intel 286 12.5 MHz $ 84 AMD 286 16 MHz 126 Intel 386SX 16 MHz 219 Intel 386 16 MHz 299 Since these prices are about 6 months old, they are probably 5-10% high. Michael Slater, Microprocessor Report mslater@cup.portal.com ------------------------------ End of 80386 M/L ****************