Received: by bu-cs.BU.EDU (5.58/4.7) id AA09337; Thu, 12 Jan 89 01:13:31 EST Message-Id: <8901120613.AA09337@bu-cs.BU.EDU> Date: Thu, 12 Jan 89 1:00:04 EST From: The Moderator Reply-To: TELECOM@bu-cs.BU.EDU Subject: TELECOM Digest V9 #11 To: TELECOM@bu-cs.bu.edu TELECOM Digest Thu, 12 Jan 89 1:00:04 EST Volume 9 : Issue 11 Today's Topics: Users having address changed: Please read! NPA/COC list Re: Area code and NNX pairs? Re: AT&T alleges dumping Re: AT&T alleges dumping Re: AT&T alleges dumping [Moderators' Note: The Digest is in *two parts* today due to the heavy overflow of mail. You will receive issue 12 also dated 12 Jan with a time stamp a few minutes after this one. P. Townson] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 11 Jan 89 23:33:08 EST From: telecom@bu-cs.BU.EDU (TELECOM Moderator) Subject: Some users having address changed Is your name on the list below? We have been requested -- like many other lists -- to eliminate or greatly reduce our use of 'relay.cs.net' in the mailing of [Telecom Digest]. The addresses listed below will be converted to the format shown in the right column as of the digest to be mailed out Friday morning. The addresses listed below should contact us *if you do not receive a Digest mailing on Friday or Saturday. Obviously, that will mean a mistake was made somewhere. If the addresses below DO get a Digest on Friday, Saturday, etc then there is no need to write. The addresses below marked with ?????? have been sent to the automated address-correction service at relay.cs.net. As of now, I do not know what will happen to them. gruber%andy.bgsu@relay.cs.net will become gruber@andy.bgsu.edu telecom%rpics.csnet@relay.cs.net telecom@cs.rpi.edu telecom%src.csnet.relay.cs.net ??????? telecom%hplabs@relay.cs.net telecom@hplabs.hp.com telecom.umass-coins@relay.cs.net telecom@coins.umass.edu telecom%sperry-csd.csnet@relay.cs.net ??????? Moderator ------------------------------ To: telecom@bu-cs.bu.edu.UUCP Subject: NPA/COC list Date: 9 Jan 89 14:57:15 CST (Mon) From: Paul Guthrie In article shaver@atanasoff.cs.iastate.edu (Dave Shaver) writes: >Does anyone have an Area Code and NNX list? Yes, Bellcore does. They administer the master lists. There are three main `lists', The LERG, the V&H and the TPM. The LERG (Local Exchange Routing Guide) is used mainly for routing. There are quite a few (nine I think) data files on a LERG tape, each with different information. For instance, LERG 2 contains a CIC list. Lerg 8 I think has your NPA/COC list and contains info such as the switch type of the CO, the place name, etc. The V&H is used for rating. It consists of one data file which for every NPA/COC contains info such as the place name, and vertical and horizontal mileage coordinates relative to a grid superimposed on north america. These coordinates are used for calculating the distance of a call, and fitting this into a mileage band chart to get first and additional minute rates (these are published inb FCC tariff #2). This is (generally) how your phone call costs are done - although there are other methods and losts of quirks, especially in intralata rating. The placename in the V&H is the name that will end up on your phone bill. The TPM (Termination point master) is an extension of the V&H which includes such info as credit card prefixes, including corporate cards. Anybody can order a V&H or LERG (they're not cheap though), but the TPM is restricted to BOCs, LECs and independants. >[Moderator's Note: Such a list, if it exists, would be hopelessly out of >date in a short time. Not so. The LERG and V&H have update info built in for about 6 months ahead, including a field that says when the change becomes effective. There are also update services (Addison Wesley runs one) that have both mailed and on-line updates. Paul Guthrie chinet!nsacray!paul ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Jan 89 23:02:32 EST From: Carl Moore (VLD/VMB) To: shaver@atanasoff.cs.iastate.edu Cc: telecom@bu-cs.bu.edu Subject: Re: Area code and NNX pairs? A while back, I received an area code program written in C. It has a few updates from me, mainly for new areacodes added in 1988. As for NNX (or NXX, if the area in question has N0X/N1X prefixes), you could check on the AT&T V&H tape via AT&T Long Lines. As the Telecom moderator states, this is subject to rapid updates (not to mention having a LOT of information to begin with). ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jan 89 09:58:48 EST From: David M. Kurtiak To: bovine!john@apple.com, dmkdmk@uncecs.edu Subject: Re: AT&T alleges dumping Cc: telecom@bu-cs.bu.edu Mr. Higdon: Your reply was well put, and I have to agree with most of what you said. It was also well supported with current market issues. My original followup was based on the interpretation of what you were saying was just to knock *everything* made here, and that we as a country CANNOT compete. That was the "knee-jerker" -- you originally just about busted everything and anything without any support other than "typical American attitude." I just simply can't buy that line of thought. Now I can see what was really behind the issue with a backed up response. I will somewhat apologize for the initial defensive attitude now that its more clear that it wasn't just a bashing without cause. (hey, we're as American as the next guy!) :-) There have been several occasions were a US made product hasn't met my expectations or has crapped out before its time. But to generalize that *all* US made products fall into that category wouldn't be fair either. You may be perfectly right about the "smokescreen" that the dumping issue may have on the real, underlying problems US manufacturers are facing. Instead of takeovers and boardroom games, more attention should be directed at the quality and INNOVATION of products. If the products are *that* much better, they will sell despite the price until another (possibly foreign) manufacturer comes in and drowns the market. I guess that MARKETING is more important at that stage, hunh?? Whatever - your points are good, especially about the others hoping we never wake up... There are some products out in the market that are maufacturerd here and are making very impressive sales both domestically and internationally. Perhaps more should follow those success stories instead of being more concerned with personal greed... ---- David M. Kurtiak Internet: dmkdmk@ecsvax.uncecs.edu Bitnet: DMKDMK@ECSVAX.BITNET UUCP: dmkdmk@ecsvax.UUCP {gatech,rutgers}!mcnc!ecsvax!dmkdmk ------------------------------ To: att!comp-dcom-telecom From: hsc@mtund.ATT.COM (Harvey Cohen) Subject: Re: AT&T alleges dumping Date: 11 Jan 89 20:30:40 GMT In article bovine!john@apple.com (John Higdon) writes: >X-Administrivia-To: telecom-request@vector.uucp >X-TELECOM-Digest: volume 9, issue 9, message 2 >Mr. Kurtiak: >I was somewhat surprised by your instant reply to my posting. Unfortunately >I feel that your response was typical of the knee-jerk attitude that >pervades the US manufacturing community. Translation: "The US manufacturing community has no right to complain about unfair trade practices, because the US manufacturing community is not virtuous." >Having owned an equipment vending company for over five years (no longer; >the market's too hoary) I can speak with some authority concerning the >wares. Most US makers have been well behind the times in their technology. [Several examples deleted] Translation: "US makers have no right to complain if foreign companies sell below cost in US markets, because US products are inferior." >"Dumping" is a convenient smoke screen that may be true to a small degree, >but it has been proven over and over again that the American people will >pay MORE for what they really want. Japanese cars cost more than their >American counterparts and yet they still enjoy brisk sales. The same >applies to telephone equipment. Translation: "Since people pay more for Japanese cars, it follows that they would pay more for Japanese telephone systems. Therefore, foreign suppliers should be allowed to sell below cost in US markets." [Lots more about how US products are priced too high and have inferior workmanship.] Higdon's logic is so grossly, mind-bogglingly out of joint that it is impossible to construct a reasoned rebuttal. -- Harvey S. Cohen, AT&T Bell Labs, Lincroft, NJ, mtund!hsc, (201)576-3302 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jan 89 0:15:41 GMT From: MITRE-KOREA@SEOUL-EMH1.ARMY.MIL To: TELECOM@bu-cs.bu.edu Subject: Re: AT&T alleges dumping I followed the discussion of ATT and dumping with some interest. Since I am currently living in Korea, I thought I might have a thing or two to consider. First of all, I doubt that things are ever as simple as we would like. The existence of differing internal (i.e. domestic) tax laws and market policies, as well as external (i.e. import/export) ones makes it difficult to directly compare situations across countries. Koreans, for example, pay sales taxes far in excess of any in the U.S., at least on "luxury" products like cars and computers. Second, the law of supply and demand (with allowances for taxes and other market-distorting forces) still applies. A smaller demand will generally imply a higher market-clearing price. In Korea, for instance, the middle class is much smaller than in the U.S., so it is only the rich who buy things like computers. Thus both a smaller market and a less price-sensitive consumer. Third, distribution mechanisms are different. I am unaware of any Korean mail-order Computer Shopper-type distribution. Fourth, culture. Koreans are VERY Korean. They don't need any government "buy Korean" programs. Buying foreign goods when Korean equivalents are available is frowned upon socially. (This is changing however. In particular there is considerable snob appeal in owning a foreign-made item, since it is usually seen as more expensive and possibly better made.) Now the anecdote: As an American living in Korea, I can buy a Korean-made Leading Edge Computer more cheaply by mail order from New Jersey, including shipping, than I can get it here. It's a strange world. Moral: ? Dan Jones mitre-korea@seoul-emh1.army.mil ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest *********************