Return-Path: Received: by massis.lcs.mit.edu (8.7.4/NSCS-1.0S) id MAA07112; Fri, 23 Aug 1996 12:38:09 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 12:38:09 -0400 (EDT) From: ptownson@massis.lcs.mit.edu (TELECOM Digest Editor) Message-Id: <199608231638.MAA07112@massis.lcs.mit.edu> To: ptownson@massis.lcs.mit.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V16 #435 TELECOM Digest Fri, 23 Aug 96 12:38:00 EDT Volume 16 : Issue 435 Inside This Issue: Editor: Patrick A. Townson Re: Shortwave Radio in the USA (Theron Derx) Re: Shortwave Radio in the USA (Robert Hoare) Re: Shortwave Radio in the USA (John Mayson) Re: Shortwave Radio in the USA (Ray Chow) Re: Shortwave Radio in the USA (John W. Shaver) Re: Shortwave Radio in the USA (pheel@sprynet.com) Re: Shortwave Radio in the USA (reganm@nationwide.com) Re: Shortwave Radio in the USA (Tad Cook) Re: Shortwave Radio in the USA (Eric Engelmann) Re: Shortwave Radio in the USA (Greg Lucas) Re: Shortwave Radio in the USA (Henry Baker) Re: Shortwave Radio in the USA (Tim Shoppa) Re: Shortwave Radio in the USA (Steven Lichter) Radio Canada International (was Re: Shortwave Radio in USA) (Nigel Allen) Monitor Radio (was Re: Shortwave Radio in the USA) (Phyllis W. Eliasberg) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 06:48:16 -0700 From: xred@ix.netcom.com (Theron Derx ) Subject: Re: Shortwave Radio in the USA You are correct! The freqs around 40 meters are probably the worst, but the signals travel best at night when most folks are listening. It is not at all like it was when we were kids. We used to send off for QSL cards. Stations now have no idea what that is. You and I would have killed for a radio as good as the $39 number you bought. We had vaccuum tubes that drifted like crazy. Your nephew might enjoy the world of AM radio after sundown. He should be able to suck in stations from all over, including Europe after about 2100 hrs local time. I spent many hours doing that. Could it be that there is a HAM license in the future? Thanks for your post ... it brought back many memories. Tad (N5ODR) ------------------------------ From: rh@buttle.com (Robert Hoare) Subject: Re: Shortwave Radio in the USA Organization: Buttle and Tuttle Ltd Date: Fri, 23 Aug 96 01:04:04 GMT > Maybe I have just forgotten things in my own life over the past > forty years or so, but I do not remember shortwave radio being as > full of junk like this years ago. I don't know about in the US, but when I used to listen to short wave in the seventies and eighties in Europe and Australia the loudest stations were Radio Moscow, Radio Prague, Radio Tirana, Radio Peking and other communist propaganda stations. It was tough to pick out the BBC World Service, CBC, Radio Australia, Radio Netherlands, Radio Sweden amongst all the junk (sorry, but VOA was also in the category of a propaganda station really). So nothing much has changed, just communist state propaganda replaced with the propaganda of anybody else who has money (the US anti-patriotic lot, and religious outfits of all sorts). Rob [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Well I imagine they would say *they* are the patriots, not the anti-patriots. PAT] ------------------------------ From: jmayson@tng.net (John Mayson) Subject: Re: Shortwave Radio in the USA Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 16:21:33 GMT Organization: The Network Group Reply-To: jmayson@tng.net ptownson@massis.lcs.mit.edu (TELECOM Digest Editor) wrote: > A question or two for shortwave radio enthusiasts among the readership ... > Is it just me, or does it seem that the various shortwave broadcasters > who specifically target the Americas lately are overrun by some very > strange people and programming ideas? It's not your imagination at all. I've been a shortwave listener since junior high school and it seems the 90's have introduced some very, well, unique broadcasters. > Yesterday I purchased a small little shortwave radio for my seven year > old nephew who lives here with his father (my brother) and myself. I > know as a child I enjoyed listening to shortwave radio and seeking out > stations I had not heard before. Our little guy may still be a bit too > young, but he is smart and he learns fast, so the little $39 shortwave > I got him at Radio Shack will be a good 'show and tell' item when he > goes into the first grade at school next month. He should enjoy it. :-) > The listener's guide made a point of saying that stations which were > exclusively of a religious nature at all times were not included, > and it listed the usual bunch: > WYFR, Family Stations, Inc, Oakland, CA > WINB, World International Broadcasters, Red Lion, PA > WJCR > WGTG > KTBN It's all part of the UN conspiracy, Pat. ;-) > ... and what I call the Unholy Trinity in Nashville, TN: WWCR-1 > and WWCR-3. World Wide Christian Radio's transmitters one and three > had all their programs listed but the guide noted that since WWCR-2 > is devoted 24 hours per day to the teachings of Dr. Gene Scott they > would not include that. > WWCR seemed to be the worst of the bunch. WWCR is pretty bad, but on the other end of the political spectrum is Radio For Peace International out of Costa Rica. They have some pretty bizarre views too. > I know there is a limit to what one can expect from a $39 shortwave > battery operated radio which fits in the palm of your hand, but I > really thought that BBC, VOA and Monitor Radio International (although > I am not extremely fond them then like I used to be) -- to name just > three good examples -- would be as easy for a child to tune in as > would be Tom Valentine with all that march music of Sousa he plays and > that other guy who was everywhere on the dial promoting the various > militia/vigilante organizations. > Has shortwave radio really filled up with a lot of this junk? I knew > local 'talk radio' on the AM band was pretty bad, but still ... What has happened is shortwave stations have scattered themselves all over North America and flame throwing power ratings. Unfortunately on a poor shortwave radio, they're going to drown out BBC, Radio Nederland, etc. All I can suggest if challenge your nephew to tune around them. :-) If he would like any listening tips, feel free to contact me. I always enjoy furthering the hobby, especially amongst the nation's youth. :-) John ------------------------------ From: Ray Chow Subject: Re: Shortwave Radio in the USA Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 11:41:35 EDT > Is it just me, or does it seem that the various shortwave broadcasters > who specifically target the Americas lately are overrun by some very > strange people and programming ideas? Most of the ones in the USA are like that these days. They're the only ones willing to put up the money. I tend to listen mostly to the European broadcasters these days. The only shows I ever listened to on WWCR were Spectrum and World of Radio. Unfortunately, World of Radio keeps getting bumped off the schedule (because it's not a paid program), and reception has been horrible. > Maybe I have just forgotten things in my own life over the past > forty years or so, but I do not remember shortwave radio being as > full of junk like this years ago. The World Harvest people on > WHRI-1 and WHRI-2 were also loud and obnoxious, but not nearly as > bad as that Tom Valentine guy with his Radio Free America program > on WWCR. By comparison, Family Radio was rather mild; and they > certainly did not ask for money via your credit card every couple > of minutes. The other thing about Family Radio is that they provide a relay of the Voice of Free China from Taiwan, which is not otherwise easy to pick up here. You're right about the other "religious" broadcasters, though. Even the Catholics get in on the act with WEWN. > I know there is a limit to what one can expect from a $39 shortwave > battery operated radio which fits in the palm of your hand, but I > really thought that BBC, VOA and Monitor Radio International (although > I am not extremely fond them then like I used to be) -- to name just > three good examples -- would be as easy for a child to tune in as > would be Tom Valentine with all that march music of Sousa he plays and > that other guy who was everywhere on the dial promoting the various > militia/vigilante organizations. BBC is still easy enough. 5975 and 6175 work well in the evening; 7325 may also be a good bet. I'm not usually home during the day, so I can't give any advice there. VOA is a bit more difficult as they have closed down many of their US transmitters (Bethany, Ohio, for example). MRI sold their Maine transmitter site to one of the SDA splinter groups, but the transmissions from South Carolina are easy to pick up. Evening is still prime time for shortwave. Most evenings I can hear Voice of Free China, Radio Canada International, BBC, Deutsche Welle, Radio Prague, Radio France Internationale, etc. (no, I don't have a fancy antenna setup ... just the whip antenna on a portable). ray chow / canada / czg@inforamp.net aa813@freenet.hamilton.on.ca ------------------------------ From: Shaver, John W. Subject: Re: Shortwave Radio in the USA Date: Thu, 22 Aug 96 10:09:00 PDT Pat, I have an early Sony which allows you to use numeric entry of frequencies and does not require the manual dexterity of tuning knobs and bandspead stuff. It has image problems. I suspect that the RS $39 does not have much image rejection. To get rid of that effectively requires one of costing $300 to $500 with triple conversion. Popular Communications has had a section about international listening on a seasonal basis. Their guy used to do a similar feature for Radio Electronics. I haven't been following either magazine for several years. Pop Comm also has features on Pirate Radio and on scanners in general for up to almost 1 GHz. Radio Shack has a house organ related to scanners and coverage. I am not sure whether it covers the Short Wave section. The local store sells the outdated ones for $0.50 or $1.00. I am several thousand miles away and get a different mix of programming than you might. I suspect that my image problem is several orders of magnitude below yours. I do get the German, Netherlands, BBC (Saturday Cricket matches, news program, info on DXing, and the Christmas Program from some infamous cathedral), a native Spaniard has found a Spanish schedule and I regularly get Chinese (don't know which side) with some fair classical music, I get a lot of Mexican stuff which seems to be intended for their internal consumption in the Northern states along the border where their networks don't reach. We have in our community the retired technical chief for VOA. He installed the satellite terminals which allowed VOA (and now most of the other services) to not have to rely on Short Wave (or so-called HF {high frequency} relays. We get a lot of relays from Carribean and South American colonies for retransmission in the hemisphere. Others which are not so accessible are from Maritania and the Seychelles. Oh yes, almost forgot Canadian Broadcast Corp (or whatever) does a lot of stuff for their far northern provinces. With the advent of satellite terminals some of those locations are going in for television. Several years ago, the Russians were using an over-the-horizon (otn) low frequency radar in the HF band and we got funny chirps, relatively broadband compared to communications signals. Don't hear them any more. Part of their long range air defense. If we had them, you had to be close to them because they were always pointed away from the US. I suspect some of the wild-eyed-radicals are relative local and low powered. They may also think that Arizona doesn't need any help. We have recently recalled a governor. We have a sitting governor under indictment for bankruptcy fraud, and one of our conservative congressional represented has been "outed" as a gay because he did not vote for same sex marriages. Again, I think that you may find more versions of the junk transmissions than you ought because of the image rejection problem. I have assumed that you knew what I was talking about. If not ask the question. Really what happens is that the local oscillator heterodynes with a received signal. The product of the detector is that frequency plus (and minus) the local station frequency. The Intermediate frequency section of the radio selects out a 5 Kilo herts section of that and amplifies and audio detects it. Triple detection allows several heterodyning processes and one can get rid of (90 db suppression) of the images. Interestingly I have a double conversion scanner. It cannot pick up directly the cellular phone frequencies. It can receive them on the image frequency, if one gets his kicks out of eavesdropping on ones neighbors. Pat, It has not been totally coherent. If you have questions, feel free to write privately back. I am a registered profession engineer in Arizona (used to be in Texas, but they were trying to reduce their debt with registrations fees), I am a life Senior member of the IEEE (I no longer pay dues and I have a Gold colored card which tells me my status), and I have been around for a heck of a long time. I also help organize the local cowboy poetry and music gathering 7-9 February 97. WE have shirt sleeve weather and some fantastic artists and humorists. It is cowboy, Sons of the Pioneers, Riders of the Purble Sage, not country and western. We don't swing at all. A cowboy complained the other day. He came from such a large poor family that it was only after he got married that he was able to sleep alone. The Best of Everything. John ------------------------------ From: pheel@sprynet.com Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 13:25:49 -0700 Subject: Re: Shortwave Radio in the USA >> They now seem to own a couple dozen AM or FM stations all over the United >> States to complement their shortwave station *and* lots of transponders (?) >> to complement all the local stations. "Translators" is the term you were looking for. And yes, I agree that US shortwave stations have turned into a barrage of demented infomercials by wackos who apparently haven't figured out how to work the Internet yet . I suggest you go to your local Barnes & Noble and pick up a copy of The World Radio-TV Handbook to find out about all the normal stations on the air worldwide. This invaluable volume also has mailing addresses for these stations, and an afternoon of letter writing will bring regular mailings of program schedules with postmarks from around the world. I sure he will find those stations more interesting than all militias, all the time. Good listening, Mike ------------------------------ From: reganm@nationwide.com Reply-To: reganm@nationwide.com Subject: Re: Shortwave Radio in the USA Date: Fri Aug 23 13:11:19 1996 GMT A good resource for shortwave info can be found at http://www.trsc.com ------------------------------ From: Tad Cook Subject: Re: Shortwave Radio in the USA Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 11:35:50 GMT PAT writes: > Is it just me, or does it seem that the various shortwave broadcasters > who specifically target the Americas lately are overrun by some very > strange people and programming ideas? That's putting it mildly! Actually, its always been illegal to target domestic audiences with shortwave. This seemed to change under the Reagan FCC. Now we have several shortwave stations (like WWCR and WRNO) who sell time to anyone, much like the old radio preacher stations, in blocks as little as 15 minutes. In the past few years these stations have emerged as the voice of various crackpot extremist groups. A lot of the programs are sponsored by precious metal dealers, who have a financial interest in promoting program content which emphasizes fear and end-time paranoia. Well, at least shortwave isn't all bland government propaganda anymore. Now we have such folks as the National Alliance (with their American Dissident Voices program), whose founder William Pierce wrote THE TURNER DIARIES, Timothy McVeigh's favorite book. Or there are the various Christian Identity programs (Pete Peters or the LaPorte Church of Christ, or Pastor Bob, of the Herald of Truth Program) which promote the view that Jews are descendents of Satan, non-whites are "beasts of the field", and that the Bible calls for death to homosexuals by stoning. Various militia oriented programs come and go, and then of course you mention Tom Valentine's Radio Free America, underwritten by Willis Carto's Liberty Lobby, the same folks who founded the holocaust denying Institute for Historical Review. For an interesting reference on Carto, the IHR, *and* Pierce, see: http://www.smartpages.com/faqs/holocaust/ihr/part02/faq.html Another popular nutty program is William Cooper's Hour of the Time on WWCR. Cooper is unique in that he is probably the first to merge conspiracy theories involving alien abduction with the JFK assassination (you see, Kennedy *had* to be killed because he was about to reveal the sinister conspiracy between US Govt and The Greys!). If anyone wants a really funny article on Cooper (too long to post here) just email me. While these stations have attracted a lot of extremists, they do seem to sell time to *anyone* at a low cost. For instance, Glen Roberts who in the past has posted here, hosts his Full Disclosure Live on WWCR. Due to the low budget nature of many of the programs, some of the arrangements for transmitting the program audio to the stations are unique. Many of them supply taped programs, but I know of several cases where someone has hosted a live show by doing a dialup into the studio over their fax line, and taking calls from listeners on a second line in their home! Hey, maybe this is a new media opportunity for PAT! tad@ssc.com | Tad Cook | Seattle, WA | KT7H | [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Anyone want to talk to me privately about doing a telecom show on shortwave? PAT] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 10:59:09 GMT From: Eric Engelmann Subject: Re: Shortwave Radio in the USA > A question or two for shortwave radio enthusiasts among the readership ... > Is it just me, or does it seem that the various shortwave broadcasters > who specifically target the Americas lately are overrun by some very > strange people and programming ideas? Maybe it's just me (though markets seldom lie), but I listen to shortwave BECAUSE of its "strange people and programming ideas." If I want to listen to the same old party line of the majority, I can get it from TV, FM, AM, newspapers, public schools, neighbors, etc. What's the matter with a little diversity of opinion and programming? Every major political and reglious change that has ever occurred has been led by "strange people and programming ideas." The puzzling thing to me is that you even thought this worthy of mention. [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Well I have no objection to differences of opinion and new ways of presenting things, but some of those people I heard the other night are just plain weird. I do agree that a lot of people are just saying the same old things over and over and that fresh voices are needed; but gee whiz ... PAT] ------------------------------ Date: Fri 23 Aug 1996 08:38:49 -0500 From: Greg Lucas Subject: Re: Shortwave Radio in the USA Reply-To: lucas@cig.mot.com Organization: Cellular Infrastructure Group, Motorola Pat, Shortwave listening is a hobby of mine. But, I haven't had much time for it the last couple of years. The main problem is your cheap - that is inexpensive radio. Those religous stations are all located here in the USA and run very high power. Your radio is very poor for sensitivity and selectivity -- which means that the US stations overwhelm the radio and you can't hear the better overseas stations. You need to spend over $150 for a decent radio. Believe it or not, Radio Shack carries a very good line of shortwave radios in that price catagory. I recommend you purchase the "World Radio Handbook", it is an excellent reference of stations and their broadcast schedules. The handbook is sold by the larger book store chains in the Chicago area. The best services are the BBC and VOA. VOA can be hard to hear because the beam their signals away from the US, they claim the programming is not for our citizens. Greg Lucas lucas@cig.mot.com Motorola Cellular Infrastructure Group Arlington Heights, IL 60004-1469 [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: But I do not intend to purchase a $150 radio for a seven year old child who may wind up not liking it or wind up breaking it in a short time. PAT] ------------------------------ From: hbaker@netcom.com (Henry Baker) Subject: Re: Shortwave Radio in the USA Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 15:19:32 GMT In article , ptownson@massis.lcs.mit.edu (TELECOM Digest Editor) wrote: > Yesterday I purchased a small little shortwave radio for my seven year > old nephew who lives here with his father (my brother) and myself. I > know as a child I enjoyed listening to shortwave radio and seeking out > stations I had not heard before. Our little guy may still be a bit too > young, but he is smart and he learns fast, so the little $39 shortwave > I got him at Radio Shack will be a good 'show and tell' item when he > goes into the first grade at school next month. [snip] > I know there is a limit to what one can expect from a $39 shortwave > battery operated radio which fits in the palm of your hand, but I > really thought that BBC, VOA and Monitor Radio International (although > I am not extremely fond them then like I used to be) -- to name just > three good examples -- would be as easy for a child to tune in as > would be Tom Valentine with all that march music of Sousa he plays and > that other guy who was everywhere on the dial promoting the various > militia/vigilante organizations. A few hundred feet of well-placed wire should improve the situation quite a lot. Your seven year old nephew can help string the wire from a ~ $30 or so Radio Shack antenna kit. Unfortunately, your $39 radio probably doesn't have SSB, so s/he won't be able to listen to very much of this new-found wealth. Perhaps it is time to learn Morse code. ------------------------------ From: shoppa@alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Subject: Re: Shortwave Radio in the USA Date: 23 Aug 1996 04:50:48 GMT Organization: Tri-University Meson Facility In article , TELECOM Digest Editor wrote: > I know there is a limit to what one can expect from a $39 shortwave > battery operated radio which fits in the palm of your hand, but I > really thought that BBC, VOA and Monitor Radio International (although > I am not extremely fond them then like I used to be) -- to name just > three good examples -- would be as easy for a child to tune in as > would be Tom Valentine with all that march music of Sousa he plays and > that other guy who was everywhere on the dial promoting the various > militia/vigilante organizations. Are Tom Valentine and the other kooks on the SW dial today really all that different than, say, Radio Albania in the past? Radio Moscow and the other Eastern block broadcasts were really quite mild compared to Radio Albania. As a matter of fact, I distinctly remember Radio Albania condemning the other communist countries because they were far too moderate :-). On a cheap SW radio, it ought to be easy to also listen to the massively powerful Spanish-language stations from south of the border where they have the re-re-re-re-verb-verb-verb-verb turned up to the max continuously. It's good to have kooks to listen to occasionally, but after a few decades of SW listening my mind is capable of immediately classifying them as noise to be ignored. If a child with a SW radio is encouraged to regard them as just noise and interference encountered while in search of truly interesting and original points of view, I think he (or she) will learn a most valuable lesson. Tim (shoppa@triumf.ca) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 21:21:23 PDT From: Steven Lichter Subject: Re: Shortwave Radio in the USA I have never seen a guide that came with a radio to be of much good other then to get you started. I have been doing it since the mid 50's and things have really changed, I mean for the better. Al the major countries have stations and they are used to get their views out, but they are interesting. RSA in South Africa was good as it the Swiss Broadcasting system, RA in Italy and on and on. The best time is late at night. A good long wire will do very well. Most are in English. If he can get the Freq and the time, date and a little information he can get a QSL card. I have some real nice ones from years ago, but today they are not as fancy since costs have gone up. A tape of the broadcast will bring some interestings sometimes. Years ago I picked up RSA before they had programming to the US and sent a tape, what I got was a 30 minutes of native music and a hand typed program guide and QSL card; still the pride of my collection. Radio Moscow could be interesting, but it also has changed. Radio Peking and Radio Japan are also good. Just a little time and he will get the hang of it, a slow turn of the dial should do it. I have an old Hallicrafters that still plus on even better then my $300.00 Sony. I hope he has fun with it, I sure learned a lpot over the years and even got to learn Japanse from Radio Japan with their program Lets Speak Japanese. SysOp Apple Elite II and OggNet Hub (909)359-5338 2400/14.4 24 hours, Home of GBBS/LLUCE Support for the Apple II and Macintosh computers. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 16:18:24 -0500 From: ndallen@io.org (Nigel Allen) Subject: Radio Canada International (was Re: Shortwave Radio in the USA) Radio Canada International, the international shortwave radio service of the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, is usually worth listening to, although severe budget cuts have adversely affected it. The studios are in Montreal. The Radio Canada International web site can be found at http://www.radio.cbc.ca/radio/rci/rci.html My late grandfather, Ralph Marven, worked for Radio Canada International in the mid-1940's as its public relations manager. Nigel Allen ndallen@io.org http://www.io.org/~ndallen/ [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: And I just found out that someone I knew from years ago is working for MRI ... PAT] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 13:38:05 -0400 From: pwe@tiac.net (Phyllis W. Eliasberg) Subject: Monitor Radio (was Re: Shortwave Radio in the USA) Could you tell me why you like Monitor Radio less now than you did in the past? The reason for my interest is that I broadcast for CSM radio on the weekends, where our main venue is the Web, and I can't compare today's casts with those of years ago. I would be interested in your assesment of today's Monitor Radio. Thank you, Phyllis [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: I answered Phyllis privately with some long reminisences going back into the 1950's ... nothing worth putting here in this already lengthy thread which I will end at thiks time unless there is something someone wants to add. I imagine Phyliis would like to hear from other Monitor Radio International listeners with their ideas and suggestions. And coincidentally, my favorite newspaper in years gone by is now online, and I encourage you to check it out if you like the paper otherwise. The {Christian Science Monitor} online edition can be viewed at http://www.csmonitor.com with all the usual features of the print edition. Thanks to all who wrote me in reply to my shortwave radio comments. PAT] ------------------------------ TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly but not exclusively to telecommunications topics. It is circulated anywhere there is email, in addition to various telecom forums on a variety of public service systems and networks including Compuserve and America On Line. It is also gatewayed to Usenet where it appears as the moderated newsgroup 'comp.dcom.telecom'. Subscriptions are available to qualified organizations and individual readers. 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A suggested donation of twenty dollars per year per reader is considered appropriate. See our address above. All opinions expressed herein are deemed to be those of the author. Any organizations listed are for identification purposes only and messages should not be considered any official expression by the organization. ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V16 #435 ******************************