AppleLink APPLE II DEVELOPMENT FORUM CONFERENCE LOG February 14, 1989 10:00 p.m. Eastern time Topic: Apple II Assembly Language Forum Leader: James Luther (AFL Jim) AFL Jim Do you all want protocol or can you guys stay on the subject? :) Chaos 89 hi Dan AFA Parik no protocol. Dan Burton Hi there DennisDoms Yes :) AFC DaveP sounds like a threat JSchober NO! protocol... :) AFL Marty You know us, Jim :) AFA Parik Just say no... AFL Jim Is it Dan or Doug? AFA Gary J Yes to protocol, Dennis? Dave Lyons I vote no protocol, I think. Republicn no protocal AFA Gary J I think?? :) Dan Burton Its Dan Doug will be here later I think AFL Marty You do? AFA Parik therefore he assembles... AFL Marty What's the occasion? :) Dave Lyons (Was this really a vote, or have you already decided?) (Gary, I reserve the Dave Lyons right to be sorry for my vote later.) JSchober hehehe AFA Gary J :) AFC DaveP (I'm glad all this is going on...it'll be the only part I understand) AFA Gary J I like that, Dave. AFL Jim Let's skip the protocol then. Tonight's scheduled topic is Assembly Language AFL Jim Anyone want to start off with a question? AFC DaveP this isn't PC?? AFL Marty hahahahahaha Republicn How can I do a Bload from Prodos 8? Can it be done easily? JSchober In assembly, Republican? MLI READ calls... (OPEN, READ, CLOSE ...) AFL Jim The same way you did under DOS 3.3, except some parts of memory are protected. Guy Rice Huh? The same way as DOS 3.3? I don't think so... AFA Parik Does anyone know what the various annunciators do on the GS? AFA Gary J I think he means in assembly. Republicn It isn't any easier in Prodos then it is in DOS 3.3? JSchober They annunciate. AFA Parik enunciate... AFL Jim From BASIC that is. You don't BLOAD from assembly... Guy Rice It's a LOT easier in ProDOS... JSchober Well, the MLI is far easier than the File Manager is, but the basic idea is the Dave Lyons Are you using BASIC.SYSTEM, Republicn? JSchober same... JSchober (GMTA Guy) Republicn Dave, yes. Dave Lyons And you want your BASIC program to do a BLOAD, then? Matt DTS Back (did I miss anything?) Republicn No, I want to do a Bload from assembly. Mac III sounds like you missed a lot AFA Parik We gossiped about you. JSchober Republican... then we were right in the first place. You execute an MLI OPEN JSchober call, then READ, then CLOSE. Just gotta make sure that you're not loading on JSchober top of memory reserved by ProDOS. Do you have a book that indicates the MLI Republicn I need the Bload from assmebly because the program is for a //e and is going to JSchober command codes/parameters/etc? (ie., Beneath Apple ProDOS, Apple ProDOS for Republicn use the Auxiliary memory to store data, and I am told that once you put stuff JSchober Programmers, etc...) Republicn in auxiliary that BASIC is written over, so the Bload must be from assembly. Dave Lyons It's true that you can load stuff only into the main 64K using ProDOS; you'll Republicn No, I don't. All the books I have are //gs assembly and this program is on a Republicn //e. Dave Lyons have to have an assembly language routine to copy the data to auxiliary memroy, Dave Lyons but you are free to BLOAD it from BASIC if you want (?CHR$(4);"BLOAD xxxxx" and Dave Lyons then CALL a machine language routine to copy the data to aux mem). Republicn To move it to Auxiliary, I was going to use the AUXMOVE routine and I was told JSchober Oh. Well, you'll really want to get some book on Advanced ProDOS... Republicn that that routine wrote over BASIC. Republicn I know I will. Dave Lyons AUXMOVE does not write over BASIC; I don't know whether you'll be able to CALL Republicn So I could Bload data from Basic, move it to Auxiliary with an assembly routine Dave Lyons it directly without trouble or not. Republicn and then have the BASIC program then Bload more data ?? Dave Lyons Yup, sounds like a good plan. You can even use the ,B and ,L parameters on Republicn That was what I was going to do, but if AUXMOVE wrote over BASIC it wouldn't Republicn have worked. Glad I don't have to worry about that. Thanks a lot for the help Dave Lyons the BLOAD to load one piece of a file at a time, if it's too big to load all Dave Lyons at once (into your available main memory space). DaviesDoug Hi all Republicn Each file isn't that big, it's just that there are a lot of them. AFL Jim Hi Doug Mac III basic probably uses it so you can't access it from Basic... Mac III but it seems likely that Basic would reside there... since Auxmove lives in Mac III both aux and main memory Dave Lyons Uses _what_, Mac III? Dave Lyons AUXMOVE lives in ROM; so does Applesoft. Mac III the aux move routine Mac III so does Basic map it out? Dave Lyons Applesoft doesn't use AUXMOVE. (Applesoft only knows about the 1st 64K.) Republicn That's why this program is being moved to assembly. It was too slow and we Mac III ok makes sense Republicn couldn't give it a lot of data. AFL Jim Dead air... AFL Jim :) Republicn Does AUXMOVE use the area of RAM where BASIC stores the program? Matt DTS Anyone up for pizza? Mac III well... at least I showed everyone that they didn't have to be an expert to AFA Parik w/o anchovies... Mac III talk in here :) JSchober Yeah, Matt!! Pepperoni, double cheese, please... AFL Scott <----Ham, too! AFA Parik Do the annunciators do anything special on the GS? I vaguely remember a Dave HDS Your buying? AFL Jim It can, Repub.. AFA Parik certain combination doing something "neat"... Matt DTS My what? Dave Lyons AUXMOVE won't screw up your program unless the parameters you feed it tell it Mac III Cupid and AppleLink? Dave Lyons to copy something over it. JSchober LOL... it wasn't an ADVERTISEMENT wyrm... amazing... Republicn Thanks. That answered that. Dave Lyons Parik, I think at least _one_ of them does something: the one for enabling AFL Jim Only if you're moving something from Aux Memory to the area where your BASIC AFL Jim program is. Dave Lyons double-hires graphics, just like the GS. On the IIc one is used for the Dave Lyons mouse or something. AFL Jim Cupid just got hit by a steam roller... AFA Parik shucks, I thought one of them would install a 16 megahertz speedup card... AFL Marty who's cupid? :) Republicn Where can I get information about what Tools were added and modified from Republicn Prodo 16 to GS/OS? Matt DTS A really nifty and authoritative-looking description of AUXMOVE... Mac III GSOS reference manual? Matt DTS ...is on page 260 of the IIgs Firmware Reference Manual. AFL Jim What is the story on the Lisa assembler? Brian doesn't come over here often, so Dave Lyons From APDA (1-800-282-APDA) buy the Toolbox Reference Update, Beta draft, and AFL Jim I haven't kept up with it. Dave Lyons the GS/OS reference manual, vols I and II. Matt DTS If you want changes done for System Disk 4.0, you need the 4.0 Release Notes... Matt DTS ...which APDA sends with the 4.0 disks that you can buy from them. Dave Lyons (Yeah, that too.) DwightW1 side question: why does my modem keep disconnecting me from the service? Matt DTS The other documents are things you Should Have, also. AFA Gary J Dwight - you must be on Telenet. I had to switch to Tymenet lately. Matt DTS Dwight: It doesn't like you. MCI is that way with me. AFL Jim Dwight, Bad phone line? Flakey modem? Republicn Thanks again. I'm just getting started with assembly and this has helped a lot DwightW1 true, will swtich also....thanks Republicn I got disconnected earlier tonight, but I can't switch to Tymnet, Telenet is Republicn the only one in my city that does 2400. AFA Gary J I had real bad problems (7 times in one night). I haven't died since I AFL Jim Hi Bill AFA Gary J switched. BillP Hiya Jim! Topic still assm tonight? AFL Jim BTW: Gary has finished uploading the new technotes into a background library DaviesDoug Anyone ever had the problem of the Super-hires screen really screwing.... AFL Jim area. As soon as Kent moves them over in the main libraries, you'll be able to DaviesDoug up. like pixels shifted around and glitching AFL Jim download them as a set or as individual files. AFA Parik No... JSchober Great! :) DaviesDoug I am thinking it is my CMS drive Matt DTS I have at home, but not at work. I power down for a while and it goes away. Dave Lyons Sounds like a software problem to me, Doug. AFA Parik Have you run Mr. Fixit through it? Republicn no JSchober How did the CMS drive and the SHR screen get connected?? %) CptnCrunch Anyone out there have a fully disassembled and commented Applesoft Basic? AFL Jim Sounds like software or bad RAM. Dave Lyons (Like a BlockMove accidentally containing the screen....) AFA Parik Merlin 8/16 comes with AppleSoft fully commented & disassembled... DaviesDoug don't know, but I have to turn my CMS off before the screen will clear back Dan Burton It looks like the screens mapping screws up DaviesDoug up after turning my machine off four about 5 minutes DaviesDoug NO....pixels flicker and it's like all the pixels get shifted but one DaviesDoug real weird Matt DTS Let me guess - vertical lines the entire screen tall that are placed wrong? CptnCrunch I don't have all the merlin files. That's what I'm lookig for... DaviesDoug Yep, MATT DaviesDoug other things too AFA Parik ah wait, I've had that problem running Applelink before... Matt DTS It's not your CMS - I have a Sider and the same thing happens occasionally. JSchober (I want to know how programs can draw on the GS' border in SHR mode... JSchober definitely drawing on the BORDER... weird...) AFA Parik Its e-z Joe. Matt DTS Joey: Go away. Far away. Now. JSchober LOL Matt... oh, Parik?? AFA Parik One easy way is to switch during scan line interrupts... Matt DTS CptnCrunch: "Don't have all the Merlin files?" You bought a defective copy? AFA Parik You can also use the VERCNT counter ($E0C02E) as documented in one of Matt's Dave HDS Yeah...just reload the background color register quick... JSchober To switch WHAT?? I always thought the border wasn't mapped to SHR coords... AFL Marty How do you not have all the Merlin files? AFA Parik technotes. A demo I'll be releasiing soon changes the screen text color when AFA Parik you do a open-apple-reset and prints neat messages :). AFA Parik (rapidly that is, it gives a hue-colored effect. Looks impressive) CptnCrunch Well, I didn't exactly "Buy" it. I'm "Borrowing" it. DaviesDoug :) AFA Parik Its not Joe, you change $E0C034, lower nibble. BillP Buy it, its well worth the cost AFA Parik When you change it at certain intervals, only part of the screen change colors. AFL Jim and we'll talk to you then :) DaviesDoug just DON't change the high nibble....it's disasterous CptnCrunch Yeah, I know... AFA Parik ie, if you change when the thing is on line 60 to green, the top will be black Dave HDS Very Dave Lyons If "borrowing" means you have all documentation and all the owner's copies of JSchober Oh, I see what you're saying!! Right, right, gotcha... so the only catch to Dave Lyons the software, that's okay. If and only if. AFA Parik and the bottom green. Nice effects. A guy I know in France makes a bouncing AFA Parik roller effect. neat! JSchober that is that the left and right sides must be identical on each screen line, JSchober eh? JSchober (a bouncing WHAT??) AFA Parik (those things mother used to whack you with :) JSchober LOL... on the BORDER?? AFA Parik Yup. He changes at various intervals, ie, change at 60 and rechange at 80 so AFA Parik you get a 20 line roller, and then increment so at next pass change at 62 and AFA Parik at 82...neat. AFA Gary J Sounds pretty wild. :) Republicn I gotta run. Bye all. DaviesDoug Dans done this (the rolling effect) looks neat JSchober OIC... hehehee... neat trick. I gotta play with that, some. (MUCH to Matt's AFA Gary J Bye, Repub. BillP I'd like to get hold of the demo that was playing in the APDA booth at the last JSchober annoyance... >:) BillP Applefest AFA Gary J Right, Bill :) AFA Parik You and the rest of the world...hehehe JSchober What was that, Bill, for us poor, unfortunate folk who didn't go? Matt DTS Playing with the border is just fine. But I've still not heard the end... AFL Jim Me too.... Matt DTS ...from people who *insist* there's some way to make QuickDraw draw on the... Matt DTS ...border and Apple just won't tell them. AFA Parik overscan...hehehe DaviesDoug yah right JSchober LOL Matt... yeah, overscan, indeed!! (Would be a nice touch, y'know...) Dave HDS You gotta be kidding, Matt...heh... BillP I wouldn't suspect people would use Quickdraw to do it Dave Lyons (Are there a lot of people like that, Matt, or just a few insistent ones?) Dave HDS Are they certified or certifiable??? Matt DTS just a few AFL Jim The few, the insistent, the ugly... JSchober :) AFA Parik Aha, another question. When I was scanning for the oa-reset semivector, I AFA Gary J :) AFA Parik saw that the VBL vector returns with a RTL when not in QD. When in Quickdraw, AFA Parik does QD replace this? Is this vector replaced with a routine that does AFA Parik something at any other time? if so, would this effect a program that is using Dave Lyons Parik, are you sure you mean the VBL vector, not the scanline vector or AFA Parik the retrace period t draw? Dave Lyons something? Gimme it in hex if you have it. What System Disk, too? AFL Marty (what the h*ll's a semivector?) AFA Parik The VBL vector. BillP an 18 wheeled vector JSchober (A vector that may or may not exist, Marty... :-) Matt DTS AFA Parik $E1/0030-33. Jumps to a $FF area and RTLs in there with carry clear I believe. AFA Gary J LOL, Bill! :) Dave Lyons VBL points to the HeartBeat task manager, _not_ to an RTL. Dave HDS Messing about in the //gs e1 vectors??? AFL Marty (thanks Bill :) BillP I got a good question... Dave HDS Isn;t that an Apple NO NO ??? Matt DTS Sort of. Maybe. But maybe not. AFL Marty Good questions are Apple no no's? BillP In the package we got with Merlin 8/16...(we bought it) was an add for a card DaviesDoug make sure you have appletalk interrupts off to do the border stuff..... AFA Gary J It's all right to look, but not to touch, Dave. BillP that claims to be a hardware debugger for 8 and 16 bit mode.... DaviesDoug otherwise it ruins the timing BillP Does anyone have one or know anthing about it? Matt DTS We prefer people to use GetVector and SetVector to look at vectors... Matt DTS ...but there are some in the Firmware Reference which you can't. Dave HDS I'm sure you do...never know when those will be moved... AFA Gary J Who was the manufacturer, Bill? AFL Jim What's the name of it, Bill? Matt DTS Well, there went Dave. Bye now, Dave. Come back sometime. BillP I forgot now... I'll post a question tomorrow about it in Lets Discuss AFA Gary J Was it ProDev? DaviesDoug hi dave BillP I'd be happy to hear of any hardware debugger that anyone know of actually. :) JSchober Gee, Dave, welcome to AII Development! AFA Parik Oh whoops, Dave you're right. It DOES something. So does this steal away Matt DTS There he is. Dave Lyons Dang. Fatal Error 0911 when I tried to go into Nifty List. :( BillP yes, It was ProDev JSchober (and you came back that quickly??) AFA Parik from the retrace period? DaviesDoug hmmmm....nifty list during a conference? AFA Parik (Dave's got Nifty List! :) BillP know anything about it? DaviesDoug that could be deadly :) Matt DTS "Dr., it hurts when I do this." "Well, don't do that." AFA Gary J I have a pamphlet on that, Bill (from last year!) JSchober Why not, Doug? DaviesDoug sort of like driving drunk Dave Lyons No, I was gone about 2 minutes, but you guys couldn't tell from the Hi/Bye Dave Lyons line. DennisDoms (I bought a System Saver IIgs...no more "0911"'s with the fan, it seems.) JSchober Oh, right, forgot that.... AFA Parik Bill, Gary talked about this a LONG time ago, it sounded really neat... Dave Lyons Yeah, Nifty List works great from within ALPE, as long as you don't get 0911 AFA Parik Didn't they make the GS version also? Dave Lyons errors for hitting Apple-Ctrl-ESC. I _have_ a fan already; maybe I need a Dave Lyons second one. JSchober A fan for the fan? BillP yea, I miss beening able to do hardware break, supposely it supports the GS BillP beening = being ::sigh:: AFA Gary J Chuck Kelly, the designer, now has an account here on AppleLink. AFA Gary J I wrote to him in December and he replied to me here in E-mail. BillP oooo maybe we should ask about a discount on multiples AFA Parik Rephrased question : IRQ.VBL runs a routine that is sort of long. Does this AFA Parik take away from the retrace period for a program that needs as much of it as AFA Gary J The 8 bit version has been available for some time, but there was a problem AFA Parik possible? Would it be wise to steal the vector away during program execution AFA Parik and replace it later on? BillP Thanks Gary, I'll contact him AFA Gary J with the IIGS version. He said they have solved the problem and will be AFA Gary J beta testing (this month?) soon. JSchober RSN, probably... AFA Gary J I think his screen name is ProDev. JSchober (looks like it, Gary, that's a valid name...) Dave Lyons No, it's unwise, Parik: for example, the GS/OS Disk II driver use a heartbeat BillP well... we can certain do some heavy beta testing for him if he wants :) Dave Lyons tasks in that queue to decide whether the cached blocks are still valid, I AFA Gary J Right, Bill :) DaviesDoug Dan got dumped by his kid Dave Lyons think. There could be lots of heartbeat tasks. Probably the best thing you AFA Gary J I've been wanting to see a IIGS version in action myself. Dave Lyons program could do is (1) do the best it can or (2) detect that the interrupt AFL Jim Is this a hint that you're doing more IIGS development, Bill? Dave Lyons routine isn't getting called often enough & tell the user to remove some AFL Jim :) Dave Lyons utilities to improve performance. BillP Its no secret Jim... BillP Everyone who came to the conference on AppleLink software heard me :) AFA Parik Hmm, thanks Dave. Right now the scroll routines are semi-jerky, so any time AFA Parik stolen away is crucial...:( AFL Jim Is that a hint that I should show up for more conferences, Bill? BillP Of course, I did not say anything about SHR. :) AFA Parik hehe AFA Gary J Yes you did. You said it was too slow, Bill :) BillP Jim, I'm sure you have enough to keep you busy.. you can always call me AFA Parik I remember Bill saying at the Alink software conference that FREE Transwarp BillP direct if you want to know anything :) AFA Parik GS's will be given away to everyone. *grin* AFL Jim so's 2400 bps... BillP :) AFL Scott I do too!:) BillP I'll need one first DaviesDoug Anyone bought a Sonic Blaster yet? Not too bad. BillP I was promised a beta GS Zip chip last year too, I wonder what ever happen to BillP it AFL Jim Any other assembly discussion before we call it a night? DaviesDoug JSchober (any static in the Blaster, Doug?? Heard a couple bad reviews in info-apple..) DaviesDoug Yah sorta, but the software is excellent AFL Scott B-Spline curves.. the inside story... Enquiring minds want to know..:) Dave HDS Tree Splaying anyone? AFA Parik You're right about VBL handler nono's Dave, I just replaced mine with a direct Matt DTS I still want pizza. AFA Parik RTL and it froze up the other GS...:) AFA Parik 0 (small, mini pizza) AFL Jim I want Gates.... JSchober Well, gee, Matt, go and call 'em up now! You're paying, of course... Dave HDS Bill? AFA Gary J Free delivery within a 3000 mile radius, right? :) DennisDoms (Gee, Jim, isn't there an SF branch?) AFA Parik 30 minutes or less! JSchober Uh huh... in 30 minutes or less... GMTA Parik... :) AFL Jim Nope :( AFA Parik :) AFA Parik Go to Arnelli's pizza in Berkeley, fantastic, New York style pizza you'll AFA Parik never forget. DennisDoms Hmmm...I'll go tomorrow and think of you... :) AFL Jim Thanks a lot, Dennis.... AFA Gary J :) AFL Jim I'll think of you when I wear short sleeve shirts in February... Matt DTS jake's, maybe AFA Gary J How can I draw a pepperoni on my screen using assembly language? :) AFA Parik bit shift it! TimH06 Use the _DrawPepperoni QD call! AFA Gary J heheh AFL Jim Matt, will Jakes let me bring my own sauce? DennisDoms LDA #pepperoni, STA $2000 DaviesDoug do a ROL PIZZA Matt DTS Well, FrameOval and PaintOval come to mind... BillP here Dave Lyons (Yeah, with an appropriate PenPattern, of course.) BillP someone call me? or was it the smell of pizza DaviesDoug i think i have gas AFA Parik My car does too. AFA Parik At least I hope so. DaviesDoug my doesn't, little mice BillP Graphic APPLE Sound AFA Gary J Hi Adrian. Dave HDS Yes, but can you use quickdraw to draw that pepperoni in the boarder???? AdrianT1st hello BillP that's what I heard AFA Parik Only if you use overscan w/ HAM mode. AFA Gary J LOL! (Dave :) DaviesDoug if you look cross-eyed AFL Jim Well... goodnight everyone and thanks for stopping by. Check the libraries BillP It in one of the new APple II Tech notes that I got today DaviesDoug new stuff jim? Dave HDS And of course blitter interrupts... AFL Jim later this week - I know you'll like the work Gary has done. TimH06 Hasn't Matt told you how to use QD on the border yet? DaviesDoug since yesterday? JSchober LOL... sheesh... Matt DTS Well, that's my cue. G'night, all. AFA Parik <-- took a peek at Gary's work, LOTS of stuff. JSchober 'Night, Jim!! :) (I gotta run, too, actually... see y'all later!!) AFL Jim Doug, the new Technotes will be up. DaviesDoug oh...already have em AFL Jim Isn't it nice, Parik? AFA Parik Gary must have spent many a hour cursing at the computer screen..."Why the AFA Parik hell is thi taking so long?" :) BillP blitter? isn't that an Amiga term AFA Gary J :) AFA Parik Its also the stuff that ends up on your windshield when you drive real fast. Dave HDS Yeah...hehe AFA Gary J It wasn't too bad, Parik :) BillP we have some cross developers here eh? DaviesDoug didn't you here bill...the GS has one now DaviesDoug :) BillP :) :x AFA Gary J Just billions and billions of them. AFA Parik Hi A2GS! AFL Jim Bye, I've got to go move across town some more... Dave HDS Very true Bill...I work from Sun's down to PC's (I'll never put an Apple at the A2GS Hi! Dave HDS bottom... AFA Gary J Goodnight, Jim. AFA Parik heheh Dave AFA Parik Night Jim! Dave Lyons Bye, Jim. AFL Jim ::poof::