To: 386users@TWG.COM Subject: 80386 mailing list, vol 4 #20 Date: 16 Mar 89 17:58:30 EST (Thu) From: "Wm E. Davidsen" 80386 User's mailing list vol 4 #20 Mar 17, 1989 In this issue: Re: 286 vs. 386sx AMI BIOS compatibility Another GateWay 2000, Purchase and Repair Buying a 386 clone -- want advice Buying a 386 clone--need advice. Cache memory Compaq & the Intel Inboard 386 Compaq 386 with Computer Everware serial port DRAM & 1.44MB drive questions; comments on Gateway 2000 Desqview 2.2 with QEMM 4.2 Inboard 386 + Xenix... Intel Inboard 386/PC daughterboard Micronics Real time unix for 386 machines STARGATE COM extender Some notes about 386USERS UNIX w/DOS shell for 386 PC VGA and 2.2.x VGA and Xenix The addresses for the list are now: 386users@TWG.COM - for contributions to the list or ...!uunet!TWG.COM!386users 386users-request@TWG.COM - for administrivia or ...!uunet!TWG.COM!386users-request P L E A S E N O T E If you want to get on or off the list, or change your address, please mail to the 386users-request address, or the message will be delayed by having to hand forward it (for your convenience, not mine). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: uunet!atc.boeing.com!paula Subject: Re: 286 vs. 386sx Date: Tue, 14 Mar 89 22:22:48 PST In the recent discussion of the relative merits of fast 286's vs. 386's, I haven't seen my hot button mentioned. I am a programmer. When I have to choose between an architechture that places arbitrary limits in my way versus one that doesn't, it's not hard to make up my mind. I've owned an 8088-based machine for 5 years and have never even considered upgrading to a 286. It's simply not enough of an upgrade to bother with. It seems that the choice of cpu depends upon one's intended use for the machine. A fast 286 costs less than many 386's and can be a great DOS workhorse. As Bill Davidsen has pointed out, a 386 with proper programming will outperform a 286. If the computer is a tool with which one accomplishes work, those are the issues to consider. The computer on which I spend my spare time, however, is a canvas upon which I will paint. In my eyes, the 386 is a much more pleasing canvas. Paul Allen pallen@atc.boeing.com ------------------------------ From: ftt@uk.ac.warwick (Trevor Thompson) Computer Science, Warwick University, UK Subject: AMI BIOS compatibility Date: 14 Mar 89 16:10:32 GMT I wonder if any one out there can help me. I am contemplating buying a 386 PC from CAS. They have a 20MHz machine with a 20Mb hard disc with 64K cache RAM for $1700 + vat. The BIOS they use, however, is an AMI BIOS. I have not heard of this BIOS before and wonder about its compatibility with the IBM standard. Any replys on email please as I can't always read the news. Cheers ****************************************************************************** * Trevor Thompson | JANET arw@uk.ac.warwick * * 2nd year Computer Systems Engineering | UCCP ...!mcvax!ukc!warwick!arw * * University of Warwick | (arw@warwick.uccp) * * Coventry | ARPA arw%warwick@cs.ucl.ac.uk * * CV4 7AL | EARN arw%uk.ac.warwick@UKACRL * * Great Britain | * ****************************************************************************** ------------------------------ From: jmbj@cbnewsl.ATT.COM (james.m.bittman) AT&T Bell Laboratories Subject: Another GateWay 2000, Purchase and Repair Date: 15 Mar 89 16:30:37 GMT [ there is another Gateway 2000 posting later on ] I recently purchased the 16 Mhz '286 from GateWay 2000 The machine is for my father so I wanted one that would arrive ready to plug in and go. This, of course did not happen for 2 reasons: 1) The config RAM backup was not secured so it dislodged during shipping. beep-beep "Invalid setup please run setup program" " - Setup - Continue" 2) The video board did not work in Turbo (16 mhz) mode - either characters were repeated or missing - or the machine locked up Their repair/tech support has been wonderful. They took the computer back FEDERAL EXPRESS at THEIR expense Monday night identified and corrected the problem on Tuesday and are shipping it back Federal Express on Wednesday (today). They said that the problem was with the Video 7 16 mhz boards. They apparently tried 5 different boards in the machine and they all failed. The first Paradise board worked, so theywill be shipping the computer back with the Paradise. Video 7 20/25 Mhz ok and MS windows compatible Video 7 16 Mhz - Locks machine up Paradise 20/25 Mhz runs ok but NOT MS Windows compatible Paradise 16 Mhz runs OK and MS windows compatible I don't know how this machine made it through QC - the technician provided a lame excuse of "Well maybe the machine didn't warm up enough [during a 48 hour burn-in period????] We noticed the problem 5 MINUTES after the machine was on! I am still planning on purchasing my '386 from GateWay, but with slightly less enthusiasm. Jim Bittman ------------------------------ From: keith@imagen.COM (Keith Rich) Imagen Corporation, Santa Clara, CA Subject: Buying a 386 clone -- want advice Date: 13 Mar 89 17:54:01 GMT Dylan Mcnamee seems to be asking most of the same questions I have been asking around about, but I'd like to add a couple of questions which he skipped. 1) What are the issues which determine whether a clone can run OS/2? There seem to BIOS and EGA/VGA dependencies, but it's difficult to identify the specifics. A recent Byte talks about this, but leaves many unanswered questions. Although I don't envision heavy OS/2 use soon, I'd rather not paint myself in a corner. 2) What are the issues regarding clone components, particularly motherboards? One MB issue seems to be the type of RAM used. There are various limits on the MB itself, and the costs and performance of expansion memory boards is not always clear. 1 Mbit chips seem to be cheaper than SIMMs, but usually incur the need for expansion memory at a lower limit. I'll accept direct E-mail responses, but I'd prefer on-line discussion. Thanks, Keith Rich Imagen ------------------------------ From: dyl@draco (Dylan Mcnamee) University of California at Berkeley Subject: Buying a 386 clone--need advice. Date: 10 Mar 89 18:27:15 GMT I need to buy a '386 clone to do some development work on. I have done a _bit_ of shopping, and have decided to get a VGA system, with the Seiko (Sony) monitor, and a 40MB drive. My question is: should I avoid the taiwanese clones? If I'm careful, can I get away with buying one of these (which seem to run approx $1000 cheaper)? I am looking for approximately a 20MHz machine, with or without cache memory. Another question: are there any BIOS's to aviod? Are there any common "tricks" the clone makers do that can shorten the life of a machine? (I know to watch out for a 16MHz 386 being driven at 20MHz, but are there others?) Does anyone own such a clone? Please e-mail responses, and I'll summarize, if desired. thanks very much dylan mcnamee dyl@draco.berkeley.edu ------------------------------ From: debra@alice.UUCP () AT&T, Bell Labs Subject: Cache memory Date: 12 Mar 89 20:36:43 GMT Well, let me clear one thing about cache memory: whatever Unix you are running, you do *not* want to disable cache if at all possible. I don't know about the Intel cache controller, but I can give you a few numbers about the Everex Step 386/25 with and without cache. I am running AT&T Unix System V rel 3.2 and have only one small problem with the cache: I have to boot my machine at low speed. Once booted there is no more problem with 25Mhz and the Everex AMMA cache. Here are a few results (you can more or less guess what the tests do), comparing the 386/25 with and without cache with a 16 Mhz 6386 and a Sun 386i/250 (the 25Mhz with cache): TEST Everex-cache Everex-nocache 6386 Sun-386i +-------------------------------------------------------------------------- pipes 6.7 13.7 14.3 13.8 system calls 16.0 33.4 32.5 16.8 function calls 4.4 10.9 10.5 5.7 sieve 3.0 6.6 6.5 3.6 sine 5.1 6.5 8.6 3.1* loop 5.3 10.4 11.2 9.9 shell script 1.7 2.7 2.9 2.5 15xsame script & 17.2 29.9 31.3 35.4 (* uses weitek instead of 387 as the others do) Disabling the cache on this amazingly fast machine degrades it to the level of a middle of the road 16 Mhz box. So you better make *sure* your high-speed machine runs your Unix with cache enabled before you buy... Paul. -- +----------------------------------------------------- |debra@research.att.com | uunet!research!debra | +----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: dsampson@x102a.harris-atd.com (sampson david 58163) Harris Gov't Aerospace Systems Division Subject: Compaq & the Intel Inboard 386 Date: 10 Mar 89 17:55:46 GMT I have one of the early Compaq portable computers (acquired in 1984). Does anybody know if the Intel inboard 386 is designed to work in this machine? I am out of expansion slots since I have a hard disk controller, and ega card, the Compaq printer interface card/floppy disk controller, a Roland MIDI card, and an AST 6 pack Plus memory expansion card in it. The obvious replacement candidate is the AST card. However, I don't want to lose my only serial port and the clock/calendar functions that are built into the AST card. So, does the Intel board have a clock/calendar and a serial port, or am I S O L? -- - David Sampson dsampson@x102a.harris-atd.com uunet!x102a!dsampson ------------------------------ From: "Carol A. Kamm" Subject: Compaq 386 with Computer Everware serial port Date: Tue, 14 Mar 89 9:28:05 EST I have a Compaq Deskpro 386 (16Mhz), running DOS. A while back I replaced the Compaq integrated disk-drive/serial port controller board with a separate Western Digital controller and a Computer Everware serial port board. I hadn't noticed any problems until I switched communications packages recently. The old communications package (in-house proprietary) did everything in a very low-level, brute-force manner and worked fine (or so it seemed). PROCOMM, however, seems to lose characters. We put a com-tester in the loop and the characters appear to be coming across the line just fine. They get lost somewhere between the com port and the screen display. I have pored through the serial port board manual looking for jumpers to set, but everything seems to be configured OK. If anyone has any information, I'd be very grateful. Thanks in advance. Carol Kamm email: uunet!umix!marae!cak Marae Groupware, Inc. cak%marae.uucp@umix.cc.umich.edu USmail: 1565 Eastover Place, Ann Arbor, MI 48104 voice: (313) 995-1700 ------------------------------ From: kkerce@x102c.harris-atd.com (Kerce KF 70458) Advanced Technology Department, Harris Corp. Subject: DRAM & 1.44MB drive questions; comments on Gateway 2000 Date: 16 Mar 89 01:11:44 GMT I'm working with a 20 Mhz 80386-based PC from Gateway 2000--more on them later--with 4 MB RAM. The RAM is provided in 32 chips--1M X 1 DRAMS is what I believe they're referred to as. The part number on the chip reads 511000 something or other, and looking in a memory components advertisement I found a part listed as "511000P-10 1,048,576 X 1 (100ns) 1Meg". What concerns me is that Gateway 2000 advertised (and the salesman confirmed it at purchase time) the system I bought as having 65 ns, not 100 ns, RAM. The assembly receipt I received with the computer has 100 ns circled in the RAM section of the receipt--however, it also says that only 1 MB was installed when I know for sure that the box has 4 MB in it. After repeated attempts to get the tech. support people to call me back, I'm interested in finding out the truth on the matter. On another note, does a 3.5" 1.44 MB disk drive need a high-density diskette to format 1.44 MB correctly? Can a double-sided double density 3.5" diskette be formatted to 1.44 MB? Comments on Gateway 2000: The only positive note on Gateway 2000 is that I've had no problems whatsoever with the hardware. It seems that other netters have had hard drive crashes and monitor trouble, though. Tech. support doesn't exist as far as I'm concerned because they never can come to the phone or call me back. Finally, did they sell me what they advertised? Does any company? I'd appreciate any comments via e-mail..Thanks in advance! -- |=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=| Kingsley Kerce | kkerce@cobra@harris-atd.com | Harris Corp. GISD | uunet!x102a!x102c!kkerce | PO Box 98000 MS W3/7733 (407)984-5927 | | Melbourne, FL 32902 ------------------------------ From: Weng Loh Subject: Desqview 2.2 with QEMM 4.2 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 89 15:11:55 EST I have a question for all those who are presently using the Desqview/QEMM combination. I have a Micronics based 16MHz 386 machine with 2 Megs of memory, running DOS 3.3 with 386-to-the-MAX 4.0. 1) Does QEMM automatically recover RAM which is reserved for ROM shadowing? ( Qualita's 386-to-the-MAX recovers 384K of shadow RAM which is not normally addressible, converting it to useful EMS 4.0 Expanded memory.) 2) I believe Desqview can make use of EMS 4.0 but I'm not too sure if it can create virtual machines from it without QEMM. Does QEMM provide additional functionality over and above that of 386Max for Desqview? 3) Do virtual screen buffers in Desqview require a high degree of VGA/EGA hardware compatibility to work? I'm using an ATI VIP VGA card, which is compatible with VGA only at the BIOS level :-( . I'd really appreciate any feedback from users of DESQVIEW/QEMM as I like to know if I need to purchase DESQVIEW with QEMM for my system. Thanks WENG. BITNET:LKOKWENG@SBCCVM INTERNET:LKOKWENG@CCVM.SUNYSB.EDU ------------------------------ From: Tony Olekshy Subject: Inboard 386 + Xenix... Date: Tue, 14 Mar 89 12:32:47 EST >From the SCO Xenix 2.3.1 Release Notes, Section 5.3, Using an Intel Inboard in High Speed Mode: The Intel Inboard is a plug-in card for a 286 AT that replaces the 286 CPU with a 386 CPU. To use the high-speed, cache mode of the Intel Inboard, add the keyword ``inboard'' to the boot line: Boot : xenix inboard To automatically use this mode of the Inboard every time you boot the system, add the ``inboard'' keyword to the /etc/default/boot file. ------------------------------ From: harnyo@grad1.cis.upenn.edu () University of Pennsylvania Subject: Intel Inboard 386/PC daughterboard Date: 15 Mar 89 04:31:17 GMT I have an Inboard 386/PC and I am thinking of adding extra memory to it. I am not sure if I should purchase the daughter board from Intel or get the Aboveboard card. Is there any difference ? I would appreciate any information from people who have done the same thing. What would be the cost of adding 2Mb memory? I am looking for a cheaper ways so any cheap sources would be much appreciated. -Andy harnyo@eniac.seas.upenn.edu ------------------------------ From: uunet!mtsg.ubc.ca!Shelby_Brumelle Subject: Micronics Date: Wed, 15 Mar 89 09:38:30 PST Is anyone using a Micronics board? Any pros and cons regarding Micronics will be much appreciated. --------- Shelby Brumelle userbru@ubcmtsg Faculty of Commerce (604) 224-8386 Brumelle@mtsg.ubc.ca University of BC Vancouver, BC Canada V6T 1Y8 ------------------------------ From: Larry Williamson Subject: Real time unix for 386 machines Date: Tue, 14 Mar 89 16:11:37 EST Kenneth Salisbury asked about real time OS's for his Dell 310 80386 systems. Ken Seefried iii responded with a suggestion to look into the products of VenturCom. I have been using the VenturCom RTX/386 product for about 5 months now. We had initially looked at the Lynx product, but decided to use the VenturCom product because of availability and because it would run on just about any 386 hardware we wanted. The package is not too expensive (~$500.00US??). The RTX package is a driver that links into the 386/ix kernel. (By the way, I understand that RTX only works with Interactive's 386/ix v1.0.6. They are working on v2.0 but delivery is ??). It comes on one floppy disk in "install" format. (ie. you install it with the sysadm using the softwaremgmt/installpkg options. RTX has been extremely reliable and very easy to use. There is one header that your programs must include and one library to link. The driver provides the following functions: rtalarm() - set a real time alarm rtbufget() - interface to kernel-resident DMA buffer manager rtioset() - direct I/O memory access rtiowait() - blocking wait for asynchronous I/O completion rtlock() - lock process in memory rtphys() - map physical memory to virtual memory rtpriority()- assign a real-time priority for a process rtread() - asynchronous and direct I/O rtwrite() - asynchronous and direct I/O The documentation seems limited at first, but is actually very good. I have had to call VenturCom only once to have a technical question answered, and even that was because I was too lazy to experiment and find out for myself what would happen. Their technical people are very responsive and knowledgable. We bought the entire 386/ix and RTX package bundled from them. They will support your installation process as well as your RTX questions. If you have any specific questions, please feel free to call. Regards, Larry -- Larry Williamson -- Focus Systems -- Waterloo, Ontario watmath!focsys!larry (519) 746-4918 ------------------------------ From: uunet!afmpc-1.arpa!Rbaker Subject: STARGATE COM extender Date: Mon, 13 Mar 89 14:33:33 CST I recently helped a customer who's brother had installed a device called a STARGATE on their Compaq 386. This device is connected to its own card, and provides a whole bunch of RS-232 DB25F ports for the '386. My only problem is that the brilliant brother lost the manual. Anyone seen a beast like this? I'm looking for a tech manual (best), manufactorer (good), or a full description of what interrupts this device will look at and what if any drivers are available for it (Ultimate goal). The '386 is running PC-MOS and has 2 COMs other than the Stargate. I do not know how, but PC-MOS _is_ talking to the first DB25F, but not the others. Any clues, suggestions, etc, are welcome. Also, if any PC-MOS experts are listening, how do you get the SPOOLER task to start in a partition other than your own? I have tried to start it from a batch file, but it doesn't appear to do anything. Comments, including full flames, are welcomed. -Roger Baker rbaker@afmpc-1.arpa (512)652-3446 "Teamwork makes it happen!" ------------------------------ From: List Master Subject: Some notes about 386USERS Date: Tue, 14 Mar 89 15:39:46 -0800 First, let me remind you that Bill is the moderator of the list, while I control distribution of the digests. 386USERS is a popular discussion group, with over 450 subscribers, including over 50 sub-distribution lists. Until now, I have been the only distribution point of the list. Since I was up to almost 90 BITNET subscribers, I solicited and obtained a BITNET LISTSERV for that block of subscribers. The address of the BITNET distribution is "LISTSERV@NDSUVM1". Those of you on BITNET should have discovered that your last few digests came from there. BITNET subscribers may add or delete themselves at their discretion using the standard commands. Further, over the last few months I have been experimenting with a mail server to distribute the archives. I am satisfied at this point that it works quite well. I want to announce to all subscribers that all digests and an index are available from the mail server. Send a message to "386users-request@twg.com" with the "subject" field as follows: Subject: get 386users archive volume VOL number NUM where VOL and NUM are replaced by an appropriate volume and number of a digest, respectively. Do NOT include leading zeroes in either value. In addition, in the body of the message, you must include a "reply-to" field with your address AS IT WOULD LOOK TO ME, thus: Reply-To: ADDRESS_AS_I_WOULD_SEE_IT I will help you determine that address if you need it. If you place the "reply-to" in the headers rather than the body, you must be certain that it will be altered properly along the path to me so that it reflects the proper return address. An index is available for each volume. It may be retrieved by requesting number 0 of the desired volume. The index consists of a collection of the subject lines of all messages in all the digests of the requested volume, preceded by the digest number in which that subject line appears. One last note for BITNET subscribers. If, in the past, I have indicated to you that your subscription address contains the host "admin.byu.edu", you should replace it with "vm1.nodak.edu". If you fail to do this your mail will fail at some point in the not too distant future. Jim <386users-request@twg.com> ------------------------------ From: mmccann@hubcap.UUCP (Mike McCann) Clemson University, Clemson, SC Subject: UNIX w/DOS shell for 386 PC Date: 13 Mar 89 19:22:55 GMT I need recommendations on a UNIX operating system for a 386 machine with the capabilities to shell out to DOS. Any recommendations are welcome, -- Mike McCann (803) 656-3714 Internet = mmccann@hubcap.clemson.edu Poole Computer Center (Box P-21) UUCP = gatech!hubcap!mmccann Clemson University Bitnet = mmccann@clemson.bitnet Clemson, S.C. 29634-2803 DISCLAIMER = I speak only for myself. ------------------------------ From: uunet!sir-alan!mikes Subject: VGA and 2.2.x Date: Mon Mar 13 15:13:44 1989 ---------------- forwarded mail follows ---------------- Date: Sat, 11 Mar 89 10:49:53 PST From: David Schachter Message-Id: <8903111849.AA09289@daisy.UUCP> To: sir-alan!mikes Subject: VGA and Xenix I had a similar problem, running Xenix 2.2.3. What happened was that Xenix 2.2.2 didn't know about VGA, so my VGA card looked like an EGA to Xenix. In 2.2.3, they added support for the Compaq VGA and then found out, the hard way, not all VGA cards handle fonts the same way. There is an update diskette available for 2.2.3 which fixes this problem, forcing the system to get fonts in a way that works properly. It also fixes a problem with exiting from SCO's CGI graphics stuff, where the fonts wouldn't be restored properly. I don't know if the fix is available for 2.2.4; I suppose it should be.... Call SCO. Xenix 2.3.1 is supposed to support VGA cards much better. I'm going to upgrade to it. ($195 for Update R.) Right now, my system runs Xenix fine, although the (Everex EVGA) VGA card I have is strapped to look like an EGA at power-up, and I told it I have an EGA monitor, even though I have a Multi- sync Plus. No problem, really. Xenix couldn't make use of the extra features in 2.2.3 anyway, and there is a utility program for DOS which bypasses the switch settings. In 2.3.1, by the way, there is a program "vidi", I have heard, which switches the EGA/VGA console to 43 line mode. How nice! -- David Schachter ------------------------------ End of 80386 M/L ****************