To: 386users@TWG.COM Subject: 80386 mailing list, vol 4 #21 Date: 22 Mar 89 07:53:49 EST (Wed) From: "Wm E. Davidsen Jr" 80386 User's mailing list vol 4 #21 Mar 22 1989 In this issue: Adventures with PC-MOS '386 Computer Products United 16MHz 386 How many emailers can a fast 386 support? Multiport Serial boards Re: PC Brand hardware, tech support, etc, Paging routines for on-board 80386 MMU Portable 386-based computer Volume/issue numbers at end of digest? The usual beginners' question... The addresses for the list are now: 386users@TWG.COM - for contributions to the list or ...!uunet!TWG.COM!386users 386users-request@TWG.COM - for administrivia or ...!uunet!TWG.COM!386users-request P L E A S E N O T E If you want to get on or off the list, or change your address, please mail to the 386users-request address, or the message will be delayed by having to hand forward it (for your convenience, not mine). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: uunet!afmpc-1.arpa!Rbaker Subject: Adventures with PC-MOS '386 Date: Fri, 17 Mar 89 6:23:09 CST I though I'd share some unique '386 adventures. I'd enjoy any comments. I am consulting for a large insurance firm who was convinced (wrongly, I think) to purchase PC-MOS to run DOS applications in a multiuser mode on their '386 Compaq. The guy who convinced them that this was the solution failed to mention several minor points about PC-MOS - like the fact it is receiving poor reviews, hangs often while running "unfriendly" programs, and degenerates reponses-wise in direct proportion to the number of active tasks. The installer even kept all their manuals, and had to be threatened just so the hapless users could get back the manuals they'd paid for. Arg! Anyhow, I've tried to reassemble their system into something usable. They have a lot of processor-intensive work on the system, mostly word processing and some database stuff written in Clipper. With 5 users and a background spooler running, this poor '386 is _slow_. Since the original requirement was file sharing, not multiuse or multitasking, I'm recommending a Novell network to tie together the PCs that were being used as dumb terminals before. The systems they were using as terminals are ATs with 640K and 20 MByte drives - I really can't see using PC-MOS. The PC-MOS spooler has some problems, and if anyone can answer, please flame away. The .SPOOL command doesn't work in a batch file. When I try to start more than 2 print jobs simultaneously (different users), the spooler does correclty route the files to disk _but_ doesn't print the final file. Odd. Word Perfect and MOS also seem to collide with alarming regularity, often while doing a merge under WP. Anyone have any similar hangups? Finally, the '386 has a nice attachment called a StarGate, which provides several RS-232 ports defined as COM3,4,5... I just wanted to say that these guys used their head. All the installation notes you need are one the diskette with the device driver - very nice, since the original installer "lost" the manual that came with the StarGate. I haven't really but the device through a heavy load, but with two ports running at 9600 baud, no problems. I'd consider buying one at this point. Flames, comments, anything - thanks for listening. I realize some of my comments belong in a INFO-ETHICS or such... -Roger rbaker@afmpc-1.arpa ------------------------------ From: bash@ihlpb.ATT.COM (Basham) AT&T Bell Laboratories - Naperville, Illinois Subject: Computer Products United 16MHz 386 Date: 15 Mar 89 18:03:16 GMT When we last left our hero (me) he was locked in a duel to the death with the mighty powers at Computer Products United. At this point not only did they have his money, but they also had his machine that he'd returned for repairs. Well, I called every day (after allowing reasonable time for delivery) for a status check. They diagnosed it on the first day, decided to replace the mother board, let it burn for a couple of days, and sent it back to me. I got it yesterday afternoon. There are some changes. First, this motherboard is made by a different outfit called "Singa". It, like the previous one, has 1M onboard memeory, but unlike the other, this motherboard uses SIMMs and can handle up to 8M onboard. Like the other board, the clock is jumperable to either 16 or 20MHz, unlike the other, it runs at 16MHz (I was able to verify via CPU techs that my old unit did run at 20MHz). It doesn't have a "turbo" light, however, all other interfaces (reset button, disk access light, etc) are present. BIOS is Award with basic setup and diagnostics (the old machine didn't have diagnostics in ROM), but there is also a separate 5.25 floppy with additional setup utilities (special memory configs). So, I booted the machine naked (only the 5.25 drive installed) and it looked like "all systems go", so I plugged in my hard drive, 3.5" floppy, VGA and mouse. Everything came up fine. Using DOS 3.3 I had no problems using the 3.5" at 1.44M. It seems that I've come out of the encounter physically unscathed. This could be the end of the adventure. Tom +------------------------------------------------------------------------- "The world was going down the tubes. They needed a scapegoat. They found the gun owners." ------------------------------ From: Larry Edwards Subject: How many emailers can a fast 386 support? Date: Thu, 16 Mar 89 22:20:28 -0500 We are considering converting our current email system (MH and MMDF on a VAX 785 running Ultrix) to run on a small number of 386's running System V Unix or SCO Xenix. Currently we support up to 40 simultaneous users on the 785. Normally all the users are doing only email activities, e.g., reads, sends, some full screen text editing, etc, and have the machine pretty much to themselves, i.e., little else is done in the background besides servicing the email users. I would appreciate hearing others' experiences in supporting many email users on a fast 386. I am especially interested in how the systems perform under heavy load. Also, do the intelligent I/O cards help? Please email directly to me and I will summarize the results to the board. Thanks in advance, Larry Edwards ledwards@note.nsf.gov (Internet), ledwards@nsf (Bitnet) ------------------------------ From: rfrye@netxcom.UUCP (Rob Frye) NetExpress Communications, Inc., Vienna, VA Subject: Multiport Serial boards Date: 15 Mar 89 16:19:10 GMT I had previously requested that anyone who is running a good async multiport board at reasonably high rates please let us all know about it. Several responses were posted -- thanks!! I am happy to say that I'm now using an ATvantage-X Computone 8-port board on an ALR 386. We've got 5 ports at 38.4kbps which *mostly* work. If you've got big function-key sequences you're blasting at it from a terminal it will not work properly above 19.2kbps. However, I tried the same setup on a Wyse-3216 and couldn't get it to function right *ever*! -- Rob Frye NetExpress Communications, Inc. Phone: (703)749-2234 1953 Gallows Road, Suite 300 uucp: uunet!netxcom!rfrye Vienna, VA 22180 ------------------------------ From: rhysling@spot.Colorado.EDU (Michael Rhysling) University of Colorado, Boulder Subject: Re: PC Brand hardware, tech support, etc, Date: 15 Mar 89 23:25:00 GMT In article <4128@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> you write: >Does anyone have experiences - good, bad, or indifferent - with PC Brand >hardware? I'm considering the purchase of a PC Brand 386-20. The reviews of >the product are good, but I've been mislead by good reviews before. So if >you've been disappointed, incredibly pleased, shocked, or merely satisfied >with PC Brand hardware in general or their 386-20 specifically, please e-mail >or post you comments and opinions. > >Disclaimer: It's mine, but if you want it you can have it. >*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=* >CHARLES REZAC * bitnet: REZAC@UKANVAX internet: rezac@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu I recently ordered a 386-20 from them and have a fairly long story. Hit 'n' now if you're not interested. I ordered the thing on Feb. 6. It took a while to get through to the order line. I suggest calling in the morning. I was pleasantly surprised to hear that they had just dropped the price of the system from $2100 to $1995 and the hard disk (miniscribe 3180e 150megs ESDI) from $1440 to $1295. I don't know if these prices are still in effect. By the way, if you get this or another ESDI drive, don't forget to include the price of a controller (Adaptec 2322, $150). I wanted the system configured (cost me an extra $60 for installing hard disk, 3.5" floppy, 5 1/4" floppy, and 40 tape drive) so they said it would take 2 1/2 to 3 weeks for me to get it. I called 3 weeks later (a Monday) and was told it was still being configured. I asked for an estimate and was told to give them until Friday to "be on the safe side." Getting through to customer service is a real joy (BIG sarcasm). Definitely call in the morning; when they open (9:30 CST) if you can. I called again Monday (now 4 weeks) and was told it had "just been sent to their shipping department" and that it would be to me by Friday. I called again Friday and was told it had just been shipped that day. It should be to me in four business days. I had my doubts. I got it yesterday about 2 weeks late in all. I read through the manuals, set a couple of switches, installed some of my own stuff, and turned it on. Nothing happened. Well, the power light came on and the hard disk whirred for a second but it wouldn't do the POST or try to boot from drive A. I called Tech Support and didn't have much trouble getting through. She had me check all the things I had already checked and told me to send it back. She said it sounded like a CPU problem since it wouldn't do the POST. How the CPU got damaged in shipping is beyond me. I read the instructions they sent for returning merchandise and decided I didn't want to pay UPS shipping when they sent me a machine that didn't work. I called Customer Service, expecting to have to yell and scream. I explained the situation to the lady. No problem, she said. They would send a call tag to UPS so they would come and pick up the system. The call tag will take about three days to get to UPS and then it'll take three days for the machine to get to them. Give Tech Support a little while to play with it, then three days to get it to me, and I should have a working machine (I hope) about 7 weeks after I ordered it. As you might guess, I'm not too pleased with this. The only good thing in this mess has been the quality of the PC Brand support people. Everyone I've talked to in Ordering, Customer Service, and Tech Support has been very friendly and helpful. I think they've been swamped with orders and their various departments can't keep up. If you're ordering one of their standard configurations and putting it together yourself, it will probably be quicker. On the hardware itself, the only problem I have (other than the machine not working) is that the expansion slots are a bit too close together. This makes things a little difficult when you're putting something in every slot and makes me a little concerned about heat. Also, the machine had 5 16 bit slots instead of four. Not a problem, just surprising. Overall, I would say don't order from them if you're in a hurry. Part of the price you pay for such inexpensive hardware, I guess. If you're patient, I would still recommend them. Lateness and machine problems are common with mail order but good support is not (at least in my experience). I feel confident that I will get my machine (eventually 1/2 :) and be pleased with it. Good luck on whatever you decide and mail me if you have more questions. Michael rhysling@spot.colorado.edu rhysling@tramp.colorado.edu rhysling_m%cubldr@vaxf.colorado.edu ------------------------------ From: uunet!cunyvm.cuny.edu!GSRLR%ALASKA.BITNET Subject: Paging routines for on-board 80386 MMU Date: Sat, 18 Mar 89 00:47:08 -0900 I am coding an application for the 80386, and wish to use the chip's on-board Memory Management Unit(MMU) to perform demand paging. Does anyone know where I can find existing subroutines which will perform ordinary paging operations, like the Virtual Memeory Manager on an IBM mainframe under MVS? Any help would be appreciated. Robyn Robertson BITNET: GSRLR@ALASKA SNAIL: P.O.Box 81638 Fairbanks, Alaska 99708 BELL:(907)479-5766 DISCLAIMER: Any claims, disclaims, reclaims, preclaims, postclaims, exclaims and the like are my own, though they are available at discount prices to anyone foolish enough to want them. ------------------------------ From: uunet!cunyvm.cuny.edu!MHKHO@NTIVAX.BITNET Subject: Portable 386-based computer Date: Tue, 21 Mar 89 14:22 U We have recently purchased two Compaq 386/20 Deskpro computers, and are considering the purchase of a Portable or Laptop of similar capabilities - e.g. hard disk of > 40 Mb, > 8 Mb RAM, CPU speed of > 16 MHz. The machine will be used mainly to develop and run AI and expert system software. The only model I know of at the moment which meets our requirements is the Compaq Portable 386, and would appreciate any information others on the list might have of other possibilities. Thank you. Hiang-Kwee Ho School of Mechanical and Production Engineering Nanyang Technological Institute, SINGAPORE. ------------------------------ From: David Schachter Subject: Volume/issue numbers at end of digest? Date: Wed, 15 Mar 89 10:39:08 PST Can you put the Volume and issue numbers at the end of the digest, as well as at the beginning? If it is had to do, don't bother, but otherwise, it will make the digest a bit more convenient. Thanks. -- David Schachter / ...!ucbvax!imagen!atari--\ david@daisy.uucp OR + ...!uunet-----------------!daisy!david \ ...!pyramid--------------/ [ I'll take that one under advisement ] ------------------------------ From: Andy Holyer Subject: The usual beginners' question... Date: Tue, 21 Mar 89 09:43:27 GMT (To *try* and avoid flames - I have 10 years or so experience w/ micros, but for the last few years I've been in the Valley of the Vaxen, so these highfalutin' new processors/OS's are rather new to me. Now read on...) Can anyone tell me this... My office PC is a Research Machines Nimbus VX; It has a 16MHz 386, 2 Mb of Memory, DOS 3.3. So Why does Windows/386 run so damn slowly? Running Kermit in anything except Exclusive mode I find it unable to keep up with the output of our (not terribly fast) Mini; And why, oh why, does the system have to stop *totally* when the print spooler's running? You can't even move the mouse pointer! At first, I thought "Oh, it's only a micro, It probably can't hack it" and lived with the problem. But since then I've seen all this stuff about the 386's "Super High Power Instruction Set", and it's beginning to puzzle me. I mean, the 10 pound print spooler on my 300-pound Atari ST at home runs faster (and slows the machine down less) than that! For that matter, I once wrote a spooler for a Z80 Micro that didn't produce that sort of slow-down! This isn't my only grouch against Windows - the memory allocation freaks me a bit too - and in general I must say I find it preferable to DOS (big deal.. :-)), but for multi-tasking, as far as I can tell, it's a dead loss. Someone prove me wrong - PLEASE??? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ | && | | | & & | &ndy Holyer | | & & | Snail: Dept. of Medical Informatics & Computing, | | && | Royal Free Hospital School of Medicine, | | & & & | Rowland Hill St. | | & & & | London NW3 2PF | | & & | England | | & & & | JANET: and@uk.ac.lon.rfhsm.ux | | & & & | Voice: (+44) 1 794 8673 | | &&& & | | |----------------+-----------------------------------------------------------| |"Handy Hint: Re-use old telephone directories as a handy address | | book; simply cross out the names of everybody you don't know." | | - Viz Comic | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ End of 80386 M/L vol 4 #21 **************************