Date: Mon, 12 Jun 89 10:44:56 EDT From: Wm E Davidsen Jr <386users@crdos1.crd.ge.com> To: 386users@TWG.COM Subject: 80386 mailing list, vol 4 #32 Resent-From: List Master (agent: James M Galvin) 80386 User's mailing list vol 4 #32 Jun 12, 1989 In this issue: Recommended ESDI drive for Compaq '386 motherboard compatibility 386 PCs and FCC Class A and Class B certification. [ 4 msgs ] Re: 386 as a multiuser DOS machine [ 2 msgs ] The addresses for the list are now: 386users@TWG.COM - for contributions to the list or ...!uunet!TWG.COM!386users 386users-request@TWG.COM - for administrivia or ...!uunet!TWG.COM!386users-request P L E A S E N O T E If you want to get on or off the list, or change your address, please mail to the 386users-request address, or the message will be delayed by having to hand forward it (for your convenience, not mine). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- |====================================================================| | | | NOTICE | | | | The list is moving. The new addresses will be posted near the | | end of June. Until that time publication may be eratic. Please | | bear with us. | | | | There has been a delay while you editor installed new hardware | | and software. The node name is all that's left. I hope to get | | issues out on a regular basis again. | |====================================================================| From: AGIANOLI%ESTEC.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.edu Date: Thu, 01 Jun 89 10:33:38 CET Date: 01 June 1989, 10:27:16 CET From: Alberto Gianolio 01719 83394 AGIANOLI at ESTEC To: 386users at twg.com Could anybody help me, please, with infos on the 8259a Programmable Interrupt Controller? I'd need to know something about the cascaded configuration, the way the BIOS initializes it and the way it works. Please answer directly to me. Thanks a lot Alberto... ******************************************************************* * AGIANOLI@ESTEC.BITNET * * The European Space Research and Technology Centre * * NOORDWIJK - THE NETHERLANDS * ******************************************************************* ------------------------------ From: monster!paul@csc-lons.af.mil Date: Tue May 23 10:06:32 1989 >From paul Tue May 23 10:06:02 1989 To: 386users@twg.com csc-lons!markmc@sequent.uucp@uunet.uu.net Subject: Recommended ESDI drive for Compaq Date: Tue May 23 10:06:02 1989 Mark McCatry writes: >I would like some recommendations for a third party 120-200 ESDI controller >and drive to be used in a compaq 386 16Mhz Machine. I work for the tech support Dept. at a major compaq reseller. The general concensus is this: Controller: Western Digital 1007 ESDI Controller Drive : Micropolis 150 Meg Drive (134 Meg formatted with Compaq DOS) if you need more info feel free to call me. Paul Fischer 1-800-234-6668 or write paul%monster@csc-lons.csc.com ------------------------------ From: elg@killer.DALLAS.TX.US (Eric Green) The Unix(R) Connection BBS, Dallas, Tx Subject: '386 motherboard compatibility Date: 15 May 89 03:56:46 GMT My brother is looking to buy a '386 setup and run Unix. He doesn't want to buy a "name brand" '386... for one thing, that's a bit beyond his budget. I've seen references on the net, "Don't buy Wells American!". Are there any other "don't-buy" systems out there? What's a good, low-cost '386 system via mail order (Computer Shopper)? (note: 16mhz is fine, though if there's no big price difference he'll go faster). What about hard disk controllers? (he's thinking about going SCSI, I guess he's jealous of the 640k/sec throughput I get on my Amiga as vs. the 180k/sec he gets on his AT at work ;-). What about video cards? Will any of the available Unixes access any of the Super-VGA cards? Or are we stuck with grainy 80 char x 25 line displays? What about windowing interfaces (after all, he's used my Amiga)? What are the major Unix vendors for 80386 Unixes (Unices?). I've seen Bell Technologies, Microport, and SCO Xenix (but he wants Real Unix, not Xenix)... what are their phone #s, so he can get more information? (EMAIL, please.... cluttering up the net isn't a Nice Thing). I guess that's enough questions for the moment.... please, if the information is obvious to the average reader of unix.i386, EMAIL it. -- | // Eric Lee Green P.O. Box 92191, Lafayette, LA 70509 | | // ..!{ames,decwrl,mit-eddie,osu-cis}!killer!elg (318)989-9849 | | // Join the Church of HAL, and worship at the altar of all computers | |\X/ with three-letter names (e.g. IBM and DEC). White lab coats optional.| ------------------------------ From: js07@GTE.COM (Jack Shaio) GTE Laboratories, Inc., Waltham, MA Subject: 386 PCs and FCC Class A and Class B certification. Date: 15 May 89 17:22:37 GMT A recent issue of PC Magazine tested 100 386 PCs from many manufacturers. A good proportion, around 30%, have only FCC Class A certification, meaning they can cause enough RF (radio frequency) interference to damage reception of TV and AM radio signals. Most of the high performance/low cost 386s fall into this category, including ALR, Tandy 5000, Northgate. I've heard that you can turn on a Class A device in your home, but if you interfere with someone's TV or receiver, the FCC can force you to stop using your device, or modify it to stop interfering. Amateur ham radio operators run into this often. Does anyone know more about this topic ? Some very competitive brands, like ALR, are class A, and would make a terrific buy, if only one could be sure of being able to turn them on at home. There are enough Class A PCs on the market that it would be helpful to know what can be done about the Class A bummer. One way of turning a Class A into a Class B is to put conductive paint all over the inside of the box; any experience with this ? --------------------------------------------------------------------------- P.S.: if you MUST email a reply, please don't bother including the FCC's number. I have it, but feel embarassed to ask about fines/jail terms. ------------------------------ From: davidsen@crdos1.UUCP (bill davidsen) General Electric CRD, Schenectady, NY Subject: Re: 386 PCs and FCC Class A and Class B certification. Date: 16 May 89 17:10:15 GMT In article <6930@bunny.GTE.COM> js07@GTE.COM (Jack Shaio) writes: | One way of turning a Class A into a Class B is to put conductive paint all | over the inside of the box; any experience with this ? This does wonders on a machine with a plastic case. Of course, I've never seen a 386 with a plastic case. This was done for a few PC clones which came in plastic or other non-conducting cases. All it seems to do for a metal case is give you a chance for a paint peeling to drop somewhere someday. I remember doing it, copper worked better than aluminum, and adding aluminum foil stuck on with rubber cement was best. As much as this brings back memories of "the old days," if it was that easy the vendors would do it themselves. I once had a system that took out every TV in the house, and a hard disk that opened the neighbor's garage door on power up. EMI is much less these days, and the cheap solution is gone. Careful placement of the system will *usually* allow you to use them without problems, although if you are in an apartment building you will want to think before you buy. Most class A machines will *almost* make class B, except the rack mounted things with no back and sides. bill davidsen (davidsen@crdos1.crd.GE.COM) {uunet | philabs}!crdgw1!crdos1!davidsen "Stupidity, like virtue, is its own reward" -me ------------------------------ From: BVAUGHAN@pucc.Princeton.EDU Princeton University, NJ Subject: Re: 386 PCs and FCC Class A and Class B certification. Date: 17 May 89 15:57:19 GMT In article <5160@tekgvs.LABS.TEK.COM>, toma@tekgvs.LABS.TEK.COM (Tom Almy) writes: >In article <6930@bunny.GTE.COM> js07@GTE.COM (Jack Shaio) writes: >>A recent issue of PC Magazine tested 100 386 PCs from many manufacturers. >>A good proportion, around 30%, have only FCC Class A certification, meaning >>they can cause enough RF (radio frequency) interference to damage >>reception of TV and AM radio signals. > >Don't worry about it! Unless you put your TV right next to your computer >you'll never notice it. I get more interference from adjacient televisions >than from my (class A) computer. My Compaq Portable III is upstairs; my TV is downstairs. Whenever I turn on the computer, the TV picture becomes noticeably "grainier". I don't remember whether it's Class A or B, and I suppose Princeton, NJ might be called a fringe area (about 50 miles from both NY and Philadelphia transmitters), but we normally have no reception problems. Barbara Vaughan ------------------------------ From: toma@tekgvs.LABS.TEK.COM (Tom Almy) Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton, OR. Subject: Re: 386 PCs and FCC Class A and Class B certification. Date: 16 May 89 14:43:28 GMT In article <6930@bunny.GTE.COM> js07@GTE.COM (Jack Shaio) writes: >A recent issue of PC Magazine tested 100 386 PCs from many manufacturers. >A good proportion, around 30%, have only FCC Class A certification, meaning >they can cause enough RF (radio frequency) interference to damage >reception of TV and AM radio signals. >Some very competitive brands, >like ALR, are class A, and would make a terrific buy, if only one could >be sure of being able to turn them on at home. There are enough >Class A PCs on the market that it would be helpful to know what can be >done about the Class A bummer. > Don't worry about it! Unless you put your TV right next to your computer you'll never notice it. I get more interference from adjacient televisions than from my (class A) computer. Extra added disclaimer: The above may not apply if you live in a "fringe" reception area, or you are in an apartment and your computer is located next to your neighbor's TV (through the wall). Tom Almy toma@tekgvs.labs.tek.com Standard Disclaimers Apply, as well as the one above ------------------------------ From: vixie!vixie@decwrl.dec.com Subject: Re: 386 as a multiuser DOS machine Date: Sun, 21 May 89 04:48:48 PDT [Hamed Nassar] # [... 16 users of dbase, 123, etc on a UNIX 386 with VP/ix ...] # # 1) What would be the lowest 386 speed needed? You'll need more than the maximum possible. 16 users on that IO bus will require lots of disk buffer cache (to reduce disk IO), lots of real memory (to reduce paging IO), and lots of CPU (to do work for users and to manage all that cache fast enough to make it useful as against real IO). Get a 33MHz machine with cache AND paged interleave. Expect to pay dearly. # 2) What would be the minimum RAM needed? Rule of thumb is 0.5MB per normal user, 1.0MB per DOS session/window, plus 2MB for the OS kernel and background daemons. This means 10MB to you. Get more if you can -- more is better as regards RAM since programmers these days are kinda sloppy with it. I'm typing this on an 16MB machine that has only me on it but has only 1.5MB of real memory in its free page list. # 3) What hardware would be needed in addition to a 'vanilla' 386, given # that 3 users would access the system via modem? Serial ports. Any of the 80186-based smart cards that will promise to work with your chosen UNIX variant (Interactive, Bell Tech), etc, will be fine. ARNET and Bell Tech both sell perfectly fine multi-port serial cards. If your modems need full-duplex hardware flow-control using RTS/CTS, I suggest a preference for the Bell Tech ICC-6 which supports this wonderfully. For modems I recommend a PEP or V.32 -- PC applications are not written with optimal screen management in mind; they expect a pretty snappy data path to the screen. 14.4Kbps isn't "snappy" but it's all we've got right now. # 4) Any recommendation for vendors? I used to get my stuff from BL Distributing, 415-887-9166. As a result of their dealings with me they became fairly UNIX-literate; I can recommend them. Ask for Bert. # 5) Finally, is there a better solution than using UNIX as # the multiuser vehicle? Various people prefer either PC-MOS, Concurrent MS-DOS, or Novell. Which is "better" depends a lot more on your support personnel and what they are good at then on any technical merits. I chose UNIX because I could support it, not because it was faster or more expandable. It was cheaper, but that wasn't a deciding factor -- I'd've paid more up front if it would have saved me support dollars in the long term. Paul Vixie speaking as an individual agent/spokesman for nobody ------------------------------ From: fisher@ctc.contel.com Subject: Re: 386 as a multiuser DOS machine Date: Fri, 19 May 89 08:17:03 EDT In article "NJITX::HXN8477" requests information on using a 386 as a multiuser DOS system supporting 16 users. You might want to consider PC-MOS/386 (they have single, 5 and 25 user versions). This is a multiuser "modular operating system." I have tried the 5 user version and it will run all of the applications you mention. This product may be obtained from: The Software Link, Inc. 3577 Parkway Lane Atlanta, Georgia 30092 Look for their advertisments in PC Magazine. As to your other questions: 1) Lowest 386 speed? I suggest at least 20MHz. 2) Minimum Ram? I suggest at least 512K per user. 3) Additional hardware? This depends on how you want them to access the system. One at a time or all at once? 4) Vendor recommendation? I assume you mean the 386 machine vendor. I recommend a Dell system 310 or 325. ------------------------------ End of 80386 M/L Vol 4 #32 **************************