From: New Liberation News Service <nlns>
Subject: Interview with EZLN Sub-Commandante Marcos

Interview with Sub-Commandante Marcos of the Ejercito Zapatista Revolucion
de Nationale (EZLN)=A9

by Robert Ovetz
independent journalist
San Cristobal [rightward slash over the 'o'] de las Casas, Chiapas, Mexico
January 1, 1994

*Pauses or interrruptions indicated by "...." No editing or grammatical
changes have been made whatsoever. Corrections are warmly welcomed.

NOTE: THIS INTERVIEW IS COPYRIGHTED AND MAY NOT BE REPRINTED WITHOUT
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Robert Ovetz: Is this the start of an armed struggle against Mexico?
Sub-Commandante Marcos: Yes.
O: ...throughout the whole country or just in this region?
M: In all the country. It is the beginning.
O: Today is the start?
M: Yes. Of the revolution of the whole country against the government of
[President Carlos] Salinas de Gortari. We begin today in four cities.
O: What are the other cities.
M: Altamirano, Ocosingo, Margaritas, San Cristobal.
O: Those other cities, are they in the mountains?
M: Ocosingo is in the jungle of Lacondonia. [Lacondonia has rightward slash
over last  'o'] Margaritas near the jungle of Lacondonia. And Altamirano is
near here...40 kilometers. These are the cities near the mountains.
O: So it has a strategic importance.
M: Yes. It naturally surrounds the cities.
O: What would happen if the Army comes in here. I saw planes flying around
here earlier but they're gone now. It won't be easy for them to come in
here.
M: We don't think they'll do that because there are many people-civilians.
O: A lot of Americans...and I'm sure the US military...
M: ...but the Indians can die but the Americans the Europeans-oh no. But
the Indians, they die.
O: I don't read Spanish hardly at all, so could you tell me what the
demands are and the FZLN [actually, the EZLN].
M: The declaration of war?
O: Yes.
M: They say that they began this struggle-armed struggle-with the maximum
law of Mexico-the constitution. There is an article that says the people
have the right to change his government anytime, anyplace, any kind.
O: Let's hope this spreads to the United States.
M: This is the 39 of the constitution that says we don't want anymore this
government so we have the right to change it because the pacifist doesn't
have the solution.
O: Like the Cardenas election.
M: Of course.
O: They just use fraud...
M: It's worse with the election of [PRI presidential candidate Luis Donald]
Colosio.
O: Who's that?
M: Colosio is the candidate of the PRI.
O: Oh, the new candidate.
M: The new candidate. Then there is no liberty, no democracy here in
Mexico...for the indians it's worse.
O: It's very likely the US military could get involved in Mexico trying to
fight you, they've done it many many times.
M: I don't thinks so clearly. In past years there was Soviet Union, Cuba
went [unclear]. But today can the American people say there is a stranger's
invasion across the border. Of what? Martians? There is no more Soviets.
The Cubans is against the world. Then they must understand it is struggle
of Mexicans and respect and don't interfere with us. The demands is not
against the United States. The demands are for respect of the constitution,
repart of land, house, milk, health, education, independence.
O: Do you seek the overthrow of the Mexican government?
M: What?
O: Do you seek a new government.
M: Yes.
O: Who would be the new government or how would it come about?
M: We seek that the government would be denied.
O: Be abolished?
M: Then the people must make a government of transition. This government of
transition calls a new election in terms of liberty and democracy.
O: How would the government of transition be chosen or who would be the new
government?
M: That way is called the [unclear] deny Salinas de Gortari. A lot of
parties make a new government of transition. This government...the
principle job is to convoke elections with freedom with liberty for
everybody. Then we want...I don't know. But the chances must equal. Not
right now, the chances is more for PRI and less for the other parties and
less... worse for the indians and the minorities of this country.
O: Is the FZLN [EZLN], does it come out of existing organizations.
M: No, god save us. God save us. No. No. It's different. No. This moment it
was born in the mountains.
O: So it is mostly indigenous people that belong to the group.
M: Yes. It is majority in Chiapas. But in other states of the country there
is other composition. But here in Chiapas it is Tzeltal, Tzotzil, Zoque,
Chocivalis, Sokema [unclear].
O: So do you consider San Cristobal a liberated zone now?
M: No. No. No. It is only a call of attention.
O: A what?
M: Call of attention for everybody in the country and the world that the
indians have the dignity of raise his head. Am I right? El libertad
cabeza...to raise his head with dignity.
O: Oh, to raise his head with dignity.
M: Yes, I don't know if it right, my english.
O: It's alright. Who are you?
M: I am a soldier.
O: You're just one of...
M: Soldier. Sub-commander of this force. There are captians, majors,
lieutenants, lt.-colonels.
O: Who...is there a general I guess or commander.
M: The maximum commander is the collective of the people that is right
there [pointing to EZLN members occupying municipal building].
O: Oh, at that building.
M: Uh huh, it's a group of people, a collective in a sense.
O: Is each of the groups...each of the four groups that have acted
today...are they all independent or are they linked somehow or...
M: They have an accord.
O: An accord?
M: Yes. Tzotzil. Tzeltal. Chocovachis [unclear].
O: In recent decades when armed struggle has taken place like in El
Salvador or Nicaragua there have been movements in North America for
example to support those armed struggles. What can people from the United
States, where I'm from do to support you.
M: The NAFTA! The NAFTA of the revolution! The principle people of the
American is the...that you call the chicanos. There are many people of
Mexico there. There are another Mexico in Los Angles, San Diego and so
forth.
O: The whole Southwest.
M: Yes. Then we tell they...there...
O: Them?
M: Them. That remember all the oppression, all exploitation, all the
humiliation that they suffer here in Mexico. And that situation forces them
to go to the United States. I think that people would be more happy if they
have his level of life that have in the United States but in Mexico-his
land with his people with his family with history. They must sow this
movement with sympathy...sympathy...I don't know how to say it. With
sympathy. They don't want it to rape women to kill white mens, white skins.
You know what I mean. [touching my shoulder].
O: Yeah, I don't know what they mean.
M: What they want is they want land because they don't have land. All the
people, Indians here they don't have land. So how can they live?
O: And with NAFTA the people that do have land will end up losing it very
quickly.
M: Forget it. Forget it. With NAFTA the death of the people is just like
the bombs that have airplane which have...[gesturing to the military jets
circling overhead]. So if NAFTA begin in first of January of 94 and the
death of these people begin this day why don't...why not begin the
liberation of these people right this day. So they decided, just begin, do
it.
O: Who do you take inspiration from?
M: Zapata.
O: Zapata.
M: Zapata. Emiliano Zapata was a farmer?...um, little farmer...or um pisant.=
..
O: Peasant?
M: ...peasant...that raised his struggle, can back his community like these
people, and says I want this now...I want this now...I want this now...so
he take the arm.
O: So this is kind of the unfinished...continuing the unfinished revolution
of Zapata.
M: Yes. Not only the unfinished but counterrevolution with the reforms of
the article eh 27 of the constitution...
O: ...What is that?
M: ...with Carlos de Gortari. In the past, eh they are land for uh give to
the peasant with solicited...I don't know...
O: With what?
M: With want...we want land..
O: Oh the redistribution of land.
M: But now no, there is no more land. The land sent [unclear] Only if we
put another stage in the country says Salinas de Gortari. But we know there
are more territorientes...
O: Territories?
M: Terrateniente. Great possessor of land.
O: Oh yeah...that a few have a lot of the land.
M: Yes. And the lot of people have a few land and land with bad conditions
for live, of health, of productions, of
commercializations...commercialization. The late stage of the human being
they are the indian people in Chiapas. There are the rich men in Mexico,
the medium men in Mexico, the poor men in Mexico, the very poor men in
Mexico and at last but not least the Indian Mexico. Worst, worse as you can
be.
O: It's like that in every country that has indigenous people.
M: Yes. And in every state of this country. Not only Chiapas-Tabasco,
Veracruz, Oaxaca, Chihuahua, Puebla. There are many people indian. I think
that they so...they began to think. And they began to make a lot of things
like this and even better.
O: Among the leaders of the FZLN [EZLN] how many indigenous people are
there...is it led by indigenous.
M: E. Z. L. N. National Liberation Zapatist Army. Because you said Fronte
Sandinista Liberacion Nationale.
O: Oh, sorry.
M: No FSLN is dead. This is the National Liberation Zapatist Army. The
indian people in the sudwest, sudest of Mexico is indian in majority.
O: Is what?
M: Indian.
O: The organization?
M: No, the direction.
O: Oh, the leaders.
M: The leaders are Indians in sudest. In other parts of the country I don't
know, I don't know, I don't know, what is it... But here it is the
composition class of origin of these Indians...Tzotzil of the altos of
Chiapas, Tzeltal of Margaritas las principales...the principale Indians of
his states have representation in the common leaderships of this army but
we think there are more kinds of struggle not only the struggle with arms.
There are other kinds that is good.
O: What are those other kinds?
M: Uh, like a...manifestation...I don't know how to say...
O: Manifestation? What does that mean.
M: Like this but without arms.
Man in crowd: Demonstration.
M: Demonstration. Mobilization. But without arms. To demand the government
to make his petitions or respond to his petitions. But in some cases it is
not possible. There is necessary more step and that step is today make the
indian majority in this state and the right possessors of this land. How do
you say...antes...before...that this country spelled Mexico...this country
his land...
O: For thousands of years.
M: Yes. They here's is my land, I must be the owner and the senior, the
master. But not over other people like his master the white skin. I must be
the master of my country with  [emphasized] my people not over
[emphasized] my people...with them. That is the think that they have. And
if you have one chance to learn Tzotzil, Tzeltal, Chocavotzil [unclear] and
began to talk with them do...you will discover a great philosophy of
humanity in these people even with a knife in his hand.
O: Even with what?
M: With a knife in his hand. Like today. No people is dead. No woman
is...no white woman is raped. But if the federal army make this there are
of lot of women of indian rape...of death...
O: Like in Guatemala...
M: Right. But this is the army. I think this is...this army is better for
the people because they...
O: Do you consider this an army?
M: Oh, of course, of course. I hopes.
O: How many people are there do you think?
M: Here or..?
O: ...all together, acting today?
M: Acting today? Here?
O: No, in all the four locations.
M: No, I can't say.
O: Oh, you don't know.
M: But I can say today here, a thousand.
O: A thousand...there is only about a hundred here...so are there more out
around the area?
M: Do you look the airplanes [pointing up at the circling jets]?
O: I saw the airplanes, yeah.
M: OK. Go down, they go down right in the...eh the exit to Comitan, exit to
Tuxtla. There is a lot of people right there.
O: Part of the organization?
M: Here is the people that is the protection of the government of
liberation...how do you say it....these people...
O: So there has been fighting then in the mountains today?
M: No. No. Only block the streets and the highway.
O: Yeah, because we can't....nobody can get out of the city right now.
M: Nobody.
[A few Mexican journalists begin to ask questions in Spanish at the end of
which he identified himself as "Sub-Commandante Marcos"].